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Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

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  • #76
    Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

    Brian, I'm your age and I largely agree with you.

    My beef with Metallica isn't that they are trying new things or even incorporating stylistic influences from 'nu-metal'. The problem is that they have utterly abandoned the things that they did better than anybody else in trying to be current.

    Metallica was never really about virtuousity--There are/were more talented guys in the speed metal scene at every position in other bands, as compared to the guys in Metallica. Think Dave Lombardo or Marty Friedman, just to name a couple. But the one thing Metallica had that no one else did was their groove. Metallica from Kill 'em All --> Justice was absolutely the tightest band on earth, and they were the only speed metal band I remember that created a rock solid groove. The result sounded something like a runaway Mack truck bearing down on you. The power was almost frightening at times. That power of the Metallica groove was largely what reawakened my interest in metal in the late '80s after the scene started to drift away towards mediocre bands full of guys in makeup.

    I think of Metallica as sort of the speed metal version of AC/DC that way. Both bands could lock into a metal groove like no other--each in their own very different way, of course. Even Metallica's slower tempo stuff in their 'golden age' hit like a punch to the stomach.

    But Metallica seems determined to abandon that. Where's that Mack truck groove between the rhythm guitar and drums on "St. Anger"? I don't hear any particular relation between the guitar and drums at all, certainly nothing approaching a 'groove.' Maybe it's there on other tracks, but from what I've read, I doubt it. Do James and Lars even jam together anymore? Even if their technical skills are rusty, you'd think their musical connection would remain strong after this many years. "St. Anger" doesn't sound like the work of a cohesive band at all.

    Whatever they are trying to do now, it isn't very convincing to me. In my opinion, it sounds like the Hetfield song well ran dry about halfway through 'Load' and they are trying to disguise that through gimmicks, funny sounds and associations with the 'flavor of the month'.

    Ok, I've built such a huge soapbox here that I'm gonna have to jump off of it! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    [ May 30, 2003, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: pro-fusion ]

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    • #77
      Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

      "--There are/were more talented guys in the speed metal scene at every position in other bands, as compared to the guys in Metallica. Think Dave Lombardo or Marty Friedman, just to name a couple. But the one thing Metallica had that no one else did was their groove. Metallica from Kill 'em All --> Justice was absolutely the tightest band on earth, and they were the only speed metal band I remember that created a rock solid groove" -Amen

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      • #78
        Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

        One last thing about the Lars issue. Many of you can't seem to get past the whole "why shouldn't Lars be able to play...." That is not the point. Ghost musicians are used for various reasons. One reason could be lack of ability to play a part. Another could be because the musician be replaced is MIA, or "unable" to perform at the moment. This could be due to too many drugs, a *****y attitude, poor work ethic, in fighting....Aerosmith and Kiss had people come in do to substance abuse. Many bands have internal conflicts that makes it difficult to work together. Metallica is one of these bands, it could have something to do with it, or it could have just been that Lars was a lazy ****head that would rather dis Motley Crue and Fred Durst instead of practice. It is common practice in the music business. Get over it.

        [ May 30, 2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: BigDaddyD ]

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        • #79
          Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

          PS - it hurts to write these things about one of my favorite bands, but I can't continue to support a band who has dumped on us with the last three studio releases. I've been a fan since '83, thus my signature... [/QB]
          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's the thing about this thread--we're not a bunch of Metallica-haters, are we? We are the band's *core fan base* talking. If Metallica really think they are going to be able to replace us entirely with young guys who weren't even born when Master of Puppets came out, they are in for a rude surprise, I believe. This album's been hyped to death and will sell very well, but what about the next one? Assuming there actually is a next album, that is. At this rate of production, James and Lars will be 70 years old by the time they finish another album! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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          • #80
            Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

            pro-fusion,

            I definitely agree with you, something in Metallica's music just isn't there anymore, and it's bigtime evident to me in the song "St. Anger". It's something that a lot of "nu-metal" has lost from "metal"--the power of the RIFF. Everybody remember, years ago, reading how everybody in Metallica would record little bits of cool riffs and stuff on 4-tracks, then come together and put it togehter into songs? Hetfield was often referred to "master of the riff" or something, at the time. Cool guitar riffs defined Metallica and came first, THEN came the lyrics and ideology. Even on a song with somewhat less...err...thoughtful lyrics, the song would still be based around a pretty cool riff. The idea of "the riff comes first" has fallen by the wayside somewhat to Metallica. I have seen the same thing with Anthrax over the years. Up through their "Sound of White Noise" album, Anthrax's music was based on really cool riffs...then, more and more, it seemed more like mish-mash noise to me, centered around lyrics, rather than lyrics built within the structure of cool guitar riffs. The focus was gone, because the cool riffs were gone. And the same thing has happened to Metallica over the years. Maybe after years of writing riffs, they gave up trying to create cool new ones to showcase in a song. Maybe Hetfield decided he was more interested in singing than anything else. I don't know exactly, but I think that's at least in part where we are missing the "mesh" that created that "Mac truck" sound.


            Brian,

            I agree, it seems obvious (again) that Metallica is trying to fit the style of the day. And, as you said, you'll also see a change in their general fanbase, but it's not the first time. Just as a reminder, for those of us who remember, and might get a nice little stomach-churning acid boiling up as we remember...

            Some people downplay the importance of "One" and its effect on the Metallica and fanbase. Suddenly, a video! As we all know, from the band that said they would never do a video. Oh well, they did it, and I always saw that as their first true step toward the downfall of what they were to what they have become. Not to mention, it was fairly radio-friendly. The fanbase in general widened, as did, of course, the bucks coming in. People who never listened to Metallica before, took notice, though I think mostly they were crossovers from less-harsh hair-metal and rock.

            Then, after that, along the same lines, "Enter Sandman", another video'd and radio-friendly song. Even more "never would have listened to Metallica before" fans come on board. Same with "Wherever I May Roam". Here's where you started hearing about a massive new group of "Metallica fans" who acted like they sure thought they were "Metallica fans", but who either didn't know jack about the earlier albums, or completley dismissed them, because, like we all knew, they were "too metal" for these new hanger-oner "fans".

            But, then you've got "Unforgiven" and "Nothing Else Matters". Okay, now, we can all remember the beginning of massive groups of GIRLIES really listening to Metallica. Not just metal girlies...BON JOVI lovin' girlies...POISON lovin' girlies...and...NO WAY!!...COUPLES swaying to these songs at concerts like they do to lovey-dovey "cock rock" ballads?!? Gimme a break! [img]graemlins/puke.gif[/img]

            And we all know where it went from there...

            [img]graemlins/puke.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/puke.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/puke.gif[/img]

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            • #81
              Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

              Originally posted by Dave:
              if a guy the size of Gene Hoglan can move as fast as he does, a wiry little twerp like Lars should have the physical ability.
              <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL! [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
              "Quiet, numbskulls, I'm broadcasting!" -Moe Howard, "Micro-Phonies" (1945)

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              • #82
                Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

                One of the only Nu Metal bands I like is Godsmack, but they toured with some sucky ass bands, Eminescence or something and Godsmack wasn`t even the headliner, that sucky ass band Stained was, I can`t beleive that ,stained can`t hang with Godsmack. I don`t get these touring set-ups, at one time you knew it was going to be bands that were similar, sort of. I remember seeing Slayer/Testement-Slayer/Motorhead-Slayer/Suicidal Tendencies,etc!! What gives with these weird Rap-Rock mixes with Rock and crazy ****!! Def Lepard is touring with Nu-Metal bands, that`s just crazy [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] Man, Nu-tallica cand hold a candle to Slayer anymore, they just plain suck now [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] I don`t know what I hate worse, Rap/Rock or Rap itself, a real tossup [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] Jack.

                [ May 30, 2003, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: slayer ]

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                • #83
                  Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

                  Here is how I see it and it is all opinion. For what its worth I am a Metallica fan. I have been since Master of Puppets:

                  I think alot of people look back and hold Metallica's integrity as being sacred in some way. Lars is a salesman, James the writer, they teamed up got the best bass player they could find and even relocated to secure his position in the band. When Dave no longer proved to be an asset to the band they ditched him for Kirk who is a dishrag looking to be led. What about Ron and Dave? They didn't care about them because they wanted people in the band that would make it a success, not drugged out losers, or bedroom bass players. Who cares if they were part of the "family". They were determined to make it big. People took the songs and the band and embraced them, so Metallica manipulated the situation. They said what the fans wanted to hear. The Metallica old school ideals of never selling out, never making a video, it was all a salespitch that WORKED! But the band wanted to make more money, get awards, and hit the bigtime, so they made the video's and released singles. What is happening today is Metallica is simply trying to sell themselves to the youth, just like they did 20 years ago.

                  James Hetfield's yearbook quote was "Play guitar, get rich". I think that sums up Metallica.

                  [ May 30, 2003, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: Jim Shine ]

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                  • #84
                    Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

                    Guitarzan: You have entirely missed my points. No, Metallica certainly do not need any more money, but look at it from a business point of view. If you can market yourself to an entirely new and different audience, your chances of MAINTAINING your presence in the scene are furthered. And with this come sustained record sales, which, in turn, is necessary to keep the record company happy. Having said that, it should be obvious that record sales will probably never be a problem for Metallica. And this leads me into my next point where you talk about their longevity...

                    Well, their longevity is largely based upon the hordes of their old fanbase who have either;

                    A) continued to (painfully) follow them with each record, hoping for a return to their roots (I guess I would fall into this group - until now - I will not buy St. Anger), or

                    B) chosen to mindlessly swallow anything they release. If they put out a CD of polka hits, people would STILL buy it because it has a "METALLICA" sticker on it...

                    It is also forever expanding at the same rate as die hard early fans from the Kill 'Em All days (like me) are dropping off the bandwagon, thereby maintaining their longevity. It's like the turnover rate of employees at the local Wal Mart... their current fanbase is becoming mostly nu-metal kiddies who have since been turned onto them via tours such as the one upcoming and constant media exposure. I think that my points are well founded, and I refuse to let someone tell me that this is the same Metallica that wrote "Hit the Lights", "Whiplash" or "Trapped Under Ice"....sorry - I ain't buyin' that!

                    Pro-fusion: Right on, brother! [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] You are 100% correct, and not only are your points valid, they point out the general "music by the numbers" formula that they seem to follow these days, as well as the "flavor of the month" sheep mentality. As far as I am concerned, my Metallica CD collection was complete after I bought the black album, arguably before that with "And Justice"....

                    PS - it hurts to write these things about one of my favorite bands, but I can't continue to support a band who has dumped on us with the last three studio releases. I've been a fan since '83, thus my signature...

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                    • #85
                      Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

                      The youth? 20 years ago there wasn't much else was there(As far as heavy goes)?I grew up on Kill Em All and Ride the Lightning! This new **** is terrible! Isn't the youth of today listening to that hiphop crap anyway? I know that they are able to do "anything they want as a band" and are very "selfish"....which leads me to beleive that they are rich, bored, and have some strange need to let people know that they are still around. That is sad. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

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                      • #86
                        Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

                        First off, I think it's hard to judge the production of a song when you are downloading it off a website and playing it thru computer speakers.

                        Second off, I will admit some good points have been made about Metallica here...about their history, integrity, and the changes they have gone thru. However, judging their new CD by only hearing 1 song isn't quite right. I'm gonna hear the whole thing before I decide if I like it or not.

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                        • #87
                          Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

                          My computer sounds better than many of my old stereos. I don't even have a stereo anymore because it sounds so good. Gee, my King's X mp3s sound awesome. Maybe the Metallica ones just suck dude.

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                          • #88
                            Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

                            Man I just heard the song for the first time!!!

                            What are tehy thinking? The production is terrible.

                            I have one explanation Metallica is trying to make the production of And Justice look good. There is no other excuse for that
                            I keep the bible in a pool of blood
                            So that none of its lies can affect me

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                            • #89
                              Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

                              **** metellica, let's worship another band that might be good
                              I've fallen, Fallen through. If I'm Not With you, All I wanna Do Is Feel blue

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                              • #90
                                Re: Metallica - St. Anger Song - Radio Release Today

                                I agree with Guitarzan.

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