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Re: A step to peace plan for U.S. No Action .. No Jackson..
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Since you're an expert on the Islamic faith at least be honest with the persons here who don't know much about it and explain what mansukh and nasikh mean and how they affect the alleged moderate and tolerant verses in the Qur'an, particularly those in the early suras. I'll give you a hint: "context" in the Qur'an does not in any way correspond with what we in the west think of as "context" in writing and literature. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">AFAIK nasikh means 'that which abolishes' and mansukh means that which is abolished. Prophet Muhammed made statements that contradicted one another, because during his 20+ years prophesizing, he tended to forget certain details Gabriel told him. The problem is finding out which verses are mansukh and which ones are nasikh... I don't see what the point of explaining this is though, maybe I'm just too tired. The way I see this whole issue is, the fundamental laws are always stable, everything else changes with evolution, as is with the Bible. You'd have to ask an Islamic Scholar about this issue, I don't really think about it or analyze these things..
Also, if your friends lived in Saudi and Iran, I don't blame them for hating the area, as they are the two most Islamic based countries. Had they lived in the UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, or Qatar, they would have probably enjoyed life a lot more, since these countries aren't necessarily based on Islam, the same freedoms exist their as they do here almost. I'm going back to Bahrain this Friday to see my parents, I'm looking forward to sitting on the beach all day drinking beer, while trying to hook up with tourists [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Would I want to live there though, probably not, ideal places for me to live would be New York, Istanbul, or London.. it all depends on what you're used to.
Originally posted by YetAnotherOne:
Yes Lev, I do have a number of Muslim acquaintences (I might go so far as to call some of them "friends" but their religion forbids them from befriending infidels). While I haven't lived in the Middle East as you have I do know a number of American and Middle Eastern persons who grew up there. To date you're the only one I've heard sing its praises, all of the others were relieved (at least) to leave.
As for the problems that spring forth from Islam, Winston Churchill said it far better than I could:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities...but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled,the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome. Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248,50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899)
Yes Lev, I do have a number of Muslim acquaintences (I might go so far as to call some of them "friends" but their religion forbids them from befriending infidels). While I haven't lived in the Middle East as you have I do know a number of American and Middle Eastern persons who grew up there. To date you're the only one I've heard sing its praises, all of the others were relieved (at least) to leave.
As for the problems that spring forth from Islam, Winston Churchill said it far better than I could:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities...but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled,the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome. Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248,50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899)
Also, if your friends lived in Saudi and Iran, I don't blame them for hating the area, as they are the two most Islamic based countries. Had they lived in the UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, or Qatar, they would have probably enjoyed life a lot more, since these countries aren't necessarily based on Islam, the same freedoms exist their as they do here almost. I'm going back to Bahrain this Friday to see my parents, I'm looking forward to sitting on the beach all day drinking beer, while trying to hook up with tourists [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Would I want to live there though, probably not, ideal places for me to live would be New York, Istanbul, or London.. it all depends on what you're used to.
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