Charvel Model 3 with painted neck

[francesco73]

Another coincidence.
Another model 3 from 1986 with a painted neck for sale.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27485391462...wAAOSwD6pg3zQO

But how come these dishonest sellers, who sell guitars with repainted necks without declaring it, do not do the same on guitars of the following years or on other models?
It's incredible that they only repaint the necks of 1986 models 2 and 3.
Yet they are not aware of the limited edition story, otherwise they would mention it in their ads.

[pianoguyy]

Another coincidence.
Another model 3 from 1986 with a painted neck for sale.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27485391462...wAAOSwD6pg3zQO

But how come these dishonest sellers, who sell guitars with repainted necks without declaring it, do not do the same on guitars of the following years or on other models?
It's incredible that they only repaint the necks of 1986 models 2 and 3.
Yet they are not aware of the limited edition story, otherwise they would mention it in their ads.

that is easily explained:
mis/dis-information found online

it is the same reason why everyone has a 1996, 1997, or 1998 Jackson. So few have one built in 1999 or beyond.
It is because someone once said that you can date it by the first 2 digits of the serial.

[Razor]

that is easily explained:
mis/dis-information found online

it is the same reason why everyone has a 1996, 1997, or 1998 Jackson. So few have one built in 1999 or beyond.
It is because someone once said that you can date it by the first 2 digits of the serial.

Exactly!

My grandpa always said a fool and his money are soon parted. Hopefully one of these days when I'm dead and gone he'll overpay triple for my collection and help pay my son's beer fund.

[pianoguyy]

Hypothetical:

Let's pretend that there were 100 black necked Charvel guitars made.
Ok. So, there were 100 authentic guitars floating around out there in the world in 1986. You know damn well, over 35 years (which makes me feel really old), that some have been sanded to bare wood. Some have been broken (Jackson headstocks, ya know). Some have been destroyed in a fire or flood or car wreck. And, obviously, some were parted out.


If there were only 100 made, and we see 200 of them for sale, we know that 200 of them can't all be real.
Not only will all 100 never be for sale at the same time (ok, it is possible, just astronomically unlikely) but also with only 100 made - where did the other 100 come from.

[francesco73]

Hypothetical:

Let's pretend that there were 100 black necked Charvel guitars made.
Ok. So, there were 100 authentic guitars floating around out there in the world in 1986. You know damn well, over 35 years (which makes me feel really old), that some have been sanded to bare wood. Some have been broken (Jackson headstocks, ya know). Some have been destroyed in a fire or flood or car wreck. And, obviously, some were parted out.


If there were only 100 made, and we see 200 of them for sale, we know that 200 of them can't all be real.
Not only will all 100 never be for sale at the same time (ok, it is possible, just astronomically unlikely) but also with only 100 made - where did the other 100 come from.

OK, now you are not denying the existence of these painted necks but you are asserting that there are many illegitimate ones out there. This is likely, because for example the famous innominabole site could repaint a damaged neck and sell it as a limited edition. But I have found two cases of painted neck guitars that are sold by retailers who are absolutely unaware of the existence of these limited edition models. Then you could tell me that those necks have been repainted anyway because it is a common thing to do it when the neck or headstock is in poor condition. OlK, if so, show me some cases of Model 1 or Model 4 with painted necks. If you find them, then I too am convinced that this story of factory painted necks is probably just an urban legend. But if you can't find them, that is, if you only find model 2 or model 3, then I think it's irrefutable that these factory painted neck models exist.

[john.w.lawson]

OK, now you are not denying the existence of these painted necks but you are asserting that there are many illegitimate ones out there. This is likely, because for example the famous innominabole site could repaint a damaged neck and sell it as a limited edition. But I have found two cases of painted neck guitars that are sold by retailers who are absolutely unaware of the existence of these limited edition models. Then you could tell me that those necks have been repainted anyway because it is a common thing to do it when the neck or headstock is in poor condition. OlK, if so, show me some cases of Model 1 or Model 4 with painted necks. If you find them, then I too am convinced that this story of factory painted necks is probably just an urban legend. But if you can't find them, that is, if you only find model 2 or model 3, then I think it's irrefutable that these factory painted neck models exist.

Who cares really. It's like 105 outside. Someone post something freaking interesting. A three unless the necks silver, isn't worth more than four hundred in the real world. 1's and 2's fours and sixs, limited 88 charvel 750XL outside your price range of 800 whatever you call it. Oh, I will

[francesco73]

Who cares really. It's like 105 outside. Someone post something freaking interesting. A three unless the necks silver, isn't worth more than four hundred in the real world. 1's and 2's fours and sixs, limited 88 charvel 750XL outside your price range of 800 whatever you call it. Oh, I will

You seem to have an obsession with Model 3. If you think I'm a fool who goes to pay 800 for a Model 3 you are very wrong. I bought one today at 250 in excellent condition.
However, the fact that it is a low value guitar does not exclude that there may be people interested in collecting them. If you are not interested in the topic, you can also not participate.

[Razor]

Hey look! A refinished Model series neck that's even called that in the listing. Imagine that?!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25512478411...EAAOSwjIdhNgK4

[francesco73]

Hey look! A refinished Model series neck that's even called that in the listing. Imagine that?!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/25512478411...EAAOSwjIdhNgK4

This is an interesting example. It shows that there may be people interested in repainted an old charvel neck even for aesthetic reasons alone. I do the opposite, try to get things back to their original state if possible.

In summary, a few days ago I stumbled upon a hypothetical Model 3 limited edition for the first time.
I therefore turned to you for clarification, considering you experts in the field.
Metalhobo gave me a fairly convincing first answer.
Then I did some research and made some findings that convinced me it was reasonable to believe in their existence.
Now, following this example, I again doubt that factory painted necks could exist.
But maybe one day someone will be able to prove it.
Meanwhile, we await the detailed photos of the French seller. If he has sold these types of guitars and continues to sell them, he must surely be interested in proving their authenticity.

[francesco73]

If you are interested, the French seller has opened a discussion on this topic on the facebook group dedicated to the Charvel guitars:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/161630820074/posts/10165529483365075/?comment_id=10165529593705075&reply_comment_id=101 65530927470075&notif_id=1631434743759468&ref=notif &notif_t=group_comment_mention

[Razor]

This is the Facebook page of this forum. There's a lot of knowledge over there. If I were seeking expert advice on Facebook this is where I would go.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Jack...velGuitarForum

[john.w.lawson]

This is the Facebook page of this forum. There's a lot of knowledge over there. If I were seeking expert advice on Facebook this is where I would go.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Jack...velGuitarForum

If it's a Japan deal, it's not limited since it's on more than one model. So, the model 3 ugh, isn't an exclusive deal and isn't worth more than twenty bucks more than any other( that's about how much it would cost to paint a neck if you knew how) 86 kahler, pickguard model 3

[Razor]

If it's a Japan deal, it's not limited since it's on more than one model. So, the model 3 ugh, isn't an exclusive deal and isn't worth more than twenty bucks more than any other( that's about how much it would cost to paint a neck if you knew how) 86 kahler, pickguard model 3

I should have qualified my post. Just some random message board a seller posts on Facebook does not expert advice make. Now Tekky and some of the other guys are still active on the JCF Facebook page. I were seeking Jackson and Charvel wisdom I couldn't find here that would be the next place I would look. With all my dealings on here over the years there are people like Tekky and others who's word would hold some weight and veracity with me.

I agree with you. A painted or unpainted neck Model 3 with a Kahler isn't ever worth a thousand plus dollars. Not by a long shot.

[Number Of The Priest]

I lost track of this thread after it descended into chaos, but I don't really have much to add on the points discussed, other than to offer a different yet complementary perspective on the seller's articulate post, particularly regarding this paragraph:

It was not unusual for brand factories to produce small series of “tweaked” models with exclusive specs for certain Japanese Music chain stores like Shimamura, Ishibashi, and so on. Those models were never referenced on official catalogs, and therefore it is highly unlikely that any formal documentation will ever be found on these. If you additionally factor in the lost records, closed factories, all of this being pre-internet, it all becomes detective work (big part of the fun!) and we have to accept that we may never have completely definitive info or stainless steel evidence on certain things.

In the Ibanez realm, these are called "spot models". I belong to an Ibanez RG fan group on Facebook whose collective knowledge is broad and deep. The community has done well to discover and document "spot model" RGs that have appeared undocumented in the wild.

We here in the Jackson/Charvel realm don't use the term "spot model" which seems to be Ibanez terminology, but synonyms might be limited release, special edition, dealer exclusive, Factory Special Run / FSR (Fender terminology), and Limited Edition / LTD (Taylor terminology). What they all have in common are small production numbers with special/different specifications/materials/finishes/features that differ from stock, and may or may not really be announced anywhere (in catalogs or on company websites) especially in pre-internet days.

I remain open to the possibility that these Model Series necks, if painted and finished at the factory, released in small numbers, and undocumented in formal literature (such as catalogs), would be early examples of Charvel production "spot models". I would need to see the [photographic] proof though.

When Firewind66 says that the detective work is a big part of the fun, I imagine that is how biologists feel when they explore habitats and discover new undocumented species that they get to share with the world.

[Number Of The Priest]

This is the Facebook page of this forum. There's a lot of knowledge over there. If I were seeking expert advice on Facebook this is where I would go.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Jack...velGuitarForum

...I had no idea that group existed. Thanks for this. I submitted an application to join.

The actual JCF page on Facebook is this: https://www.facebook.com/groups/222541984372

And here is its classifieds page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/221952364681776