wow!!! read this bullshit...

[hippietim]

why couldnt they just put this guy where we needed him?on a bus trip with george bush:idea:

No room on the bus - between him, the family, and the secret service. Remember, Bush rides the short bus.

[horns666]

[hunter8]

No room on the bus - between him, the family, and the secret service. Remember, Bush rides the short bus.

[clifffclaven]

Sadly, he's caught dead to rights, execute him. That's just too heinious of a crime to have his ass alive and wasting resources.

I'd normally go wtf Canada... But, we just had a woman in Cleveland who drowned her three kids and got off the same way. So, it's WTF in general. Somewhat different here just in the differences in ferociousness of the crimes. But, the same nonetheless. We're broke, fuck taking care of them. Kill them.

They seem ok with killin stuff, I'm sure they'll understand.

+1000 shoot him. end of story.

[FlyingSkull]

Maybe we could bring back the lions?

"Here, Lions."

[Vass]

I think that's crap. Your scenarios are simple to address.



Unless there are details missing this is a traggic accident and no crime was committed.



The guy murdered a woman, goes to jail, and starts new dating habbits.



The guy murdered a woman, goes to jail, and starts new dating habbits.



The guy murdered a woman, goes to jail, and starts new dating habbits.



The guy murdered a woman, goes to jail, and starts new dating habbits.



The guy murdered a woman, goes to jail, and starts new dating habbits.



Fuck him. Fuck the judge. People need to stop being so fucking cavalier with other people's lives. That means don't drink and drive, don't fucking text and drive, etc. I'm sick of this shit.



Sorry dude but I think that's pure bullshit. This sort of reasoning prefers the criminal over the victim. FUCK THE CRIMINALS!

Anyone that thinks they can sort out which form of murderer is truly worse than another is kidding themselves - nobody has the ability to truly render what is going on in someone else's head. Anyone willing to murder another person in any manner is no better or worse than any other murderer.

Like our financial and political systems, our justice system is complex and failing us.

Hope I don't ever get you on a jury if I get busted Tim

How about an 8 year old that accidentally shoots his friend with his parent's gun?

To be consistent with that stance would be to advocate the same treatment for the mentally ill for every social infraction- While as a resident of a very urban area, I wouldn't mind if somehow all the mentally ill homeless people suddenly disapeared to County Jail, but I do know it would be wrong. However, they are habitual law-breakers, due to vagrancy, drinking in public, public intoxication, disorderly behavior, etc.

There are certain crimes that fall under "strict liability" standards in which mental state does not matter. actus reus, ie the act itself, is enough...These are known as "do the crime do the time" laws. They're usually ticky tacky small things like parking violations or whatever- Mental state doesn't matter, ya shouldn't have parked in front of the fire hydrant.

For the vast majority of infractions, however, mental state is at the very root (you could argue it IS the root) of due process in the United States & in western civillization generally. It's what keeps, for example, a genuine, honest mistake on the part of an EMT that results in a patient's death from becoming a criminal act.

Regarding the cell phone example, which was the weakest one you felt warranted jail time and, apparently, rape, I do know I would be furious if someone killed someone I loved while yapping on the phone.

I also know that I have yapped on a cell in my past while driving (I haven't in years- way before these laws started- I recognized in myself that my driving got just HORRIBLE when I was on one and I stopped). I imagine at some point you have as well, or you've fiddled with the radio longer than you should, or stared at the hot chick in the next car as you went by for too long....by that standard, the only thing standing between you, me, and a long stretch in the pen with an agressive new love interest is luck. What's the justice in that?

I am sure you can rebut with examples where justice wasn't fair, or isn't fair, and of course it's not perfect- Nothing is- But don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

Finance & justice are complicated because life is complicated bro One size fits all usually ends up not fitting anything very well.

[hippietim]

Hope I don't ever get you on a jury if I get busted Tim

Guilty!

How about an 8 year old that accidentally shoots his friend with his parent's gun?

I don't think you can treat an 8 year old as an adult.

To be consistent with that stance would be to advocate the same treatment for the mentally ill for every social infraction- While as a resident of a very urban area, I wouldn't mind if somehow all the mentally ill homeless people suddenly disapeared to County Jail, but I do know it would be wrong. However, they are habitual law-breakers, due to vagrancy, drinking in public, public intoxication, disorderly behavior, etc.

I have no idea what your point is here. Otis should be in jail.

I also know that I have yapped on a cell in my past while driving (I haven't in years- way before these laws started- I recognized in myself that my driving got just HORRIBLE when I was on one and I stopped). I imagine at some point you have as well, or you've fiddled with the radio longer than you should, or stared at the hot chick in the next car as you went by for too long....by that standard, the only thing standing between you, me, and a long stretch in the pen with an agressive new love interest is luck. What's the justice in that?

By text messaging while driving, drinking and driving, driving 100mph in a 25mph zone, etc. you are literally saying "fuck everyone else, I'll do whatever the fuck I please" - so as a society we should say "fuck you too" for the consequences.

But, let's follow your way to it's conclusion. We take pity on you and you get off or pay some fine or do some minimal time or whatever - in any case, you're eventually free and clear again. Odds are very good that you will be a fucktard again. This happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME - people driving drunk again after having mowed someone over before, murderers kill people on parole, etc.

Now what? Do we take pity on you again? Then what? How many times do these worthless fucks get a do-over in life? Seriously, there are many, many, many worthy people that don't even get a decent first chance and we embrace these pieces of shit for second, third, fourth, fifth chances? Really?

And even if I cut you some slack for the traffic variations. Please explain to me why some guy that murders someone in the midst of an armed robbery is any less of a piece of shit than someone that spends a week to plan the murder of his wife's lover. At least the second guy had a reason. If anything, I think the completely senseless murder of someone is much worse.

I am so sick of our (in)justice system that favors criminals.

[Vass]

Guilty!



I don't think you can treat an 8 year old as an adult.



I have no idea what your point is here. Otis should be in jail.



By text messaging while driving, drinking and driving, driving 100mph in a 25mph zone, etc. you are literally saying "fuck everyone else, I'll do whatever the fuck I please" - so as a society we should say "fuck you too" for the consequences.

But, let's follow your way to it's conclusion. We take pity on you and you get off or pay some fine or do some minimal time or whatever - in any case, you're eventually free and clear again. Odds are very good that you will be a fucktard again. This happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME - people driving drunk again after having mowed someone over before, murderers kill people on parole, etc.

Now what? Do we take pity on you again? Then what? How many times do these worthless fucks get a do-over in life? Seriously, there are many, many, many worthy people that don't even get a decent first chance and we embrace these pieces of shit for second, third, fourth, fifth chances? Really?

And even if I cut you some slack for the traffic variations. Please explain to me why some guy that murders someone in the midst of an armed robbery is any less of a piece of shit than someone that spends a week to plan the murder of his wife's lover. At least the second guy had a reason. If anything, I think the completely senseless murder of someone is much worse.

I am so sick of our (in)justice system that favors criminals.

OK, an 8 year old gets a pass. How about a 30 year old with Down's?

Different circumstances warrant different treatments.

And I'll agree with you that someone who just decides to execute someone in the midst of a robbery is in many ways a bigger shitbag than someone who kills someone for a "reason". That's why you'll see some of these cases end up with a 1st degree pre-meditated charge- Because it was premeditated. The son of a bitch was going to kill someone, he just hadn't filled in the blank yet. Same with someone who goes and shoots up a school. Probably had no way of knowing for sure who he'd get, but damn straight it was pre-meditated.

For multiple offenders- again, you're missing the point, or perhaps making a point outside the scope of this discussion- Repeat offenders I agree should get drilled. Drunk driving once? It's not OK, you should end up with a miserable experience because of it, but I can understand how it happens and I wouldn't want to see someone lose the ability to drive for life. Drunk driving twice? Fuck you. Buy a bicycle.

My point for "Otis"...(Otis? lol) is that a just society & a reasonable approach dictates that you treat behavior differently depending on the intentions behind that behavior. If a brain damaged kid pulls down his pants and pisses on the floor in McDonalds, you get him out of there and clean up the floor. If some drunken fratboy does the same thing, fuck you kid, we'll see how funny a night in county is. There's still a puddle of piss on the floor, no matter who did it. Is your reaction the same towards both individuals?

Schools have moved to this "zero tolerance" type approach you're suggesting, treating everyone the same. Bully punches you in the face, and you punch him back? Well, you both threw punches. You're both suspended. Policy says any weapons & you're expelled. One kid gets caught in the metal detector with a .357. Other kid gets caught with a Leatherman. Expell them both.

"Zero Tolerance" ends up meaning "zero thought" or "zero responsibility" for judgement.

[Cleveland Metal]

why couldnt they just put this guy where we needed him?on a bus trip with george bush:idea:

If that guy did that in George's Texas... He'd be executed.

Cry all you want dems... But, it's liberal dem hug a criminal judges that let these fuckers off easy.

Thanks much for that by the way

[hippietim]

For multiple offenders- again, you're missing the point, or perhaps making a point outside the scope of this discussion- Repeat offenders I agree should get drilled. Drunk driving once? It's not OK, you should end up with a miserable experience because of it, but I can understand how it happens and I wouldn't want to see someone lose the ability to drive for life. Drunk driving twice? Fuck you. Buy a bicycle.

You missed my point. You drive drunk and kill someone you are a murderer. Plain and simple.

My point for "Otis"...(Otis? lol) is that society & a reasonable approach dictates that you treat behavior differently depending on the intentions behind that behavior. If a brain damaged kid pulls down his pants and pisses on the floor in McDonalds, you get him out of there and clean up the floor. If some drunken fratboy does the same thing, fuck you kid, we'll see how funny a night in county is. There's still a puddle of piss on the floor, no matter who did it. Is your reaction the same towards both individuals?

I'm talking about serious crimes like murder. I don't give a shit about this sort of thing at all.

Schools have moved to this "zero tolerance" type approach you're suggesting, treating everyone the same. Bully punches you in the face, and you punch him back? Well, you both threw punches. You're both suspended. Policy says any weapons & you're expelled. One kid gets caught in the metal detector with a .357. Other kid gets caught with a Leatherman. Expell them both.

The schools where my kids go to school will not boot anyone for defending themselves. But if you go out of your way to hit the bully at some later time then you get in trouble. And the kid with the Leatherman should be expelled. There is no reason for a kid to have a knife in school.

"Zero Tolerance" ends up meaning "zero thought" or "zero responsibility" for judgement.

As an absolute rule I can almost agree. I don't disagree that there are exceptions at times and there can certainly be a lot of different treatments of people depending on the crime.

I believe the current system is actually "zero responsibility" for the criminal.

But when it comes to taking or destroying someone else's life, why do we have to be tolerant of that? Why do I have to pay the consequences for these nutjobs and asshole? Why do they get better benefits from our government than actual useful people?

How about we apply that compassion for the victims and their friends and family? How about we apply that compassion and resources to helping people that don't kill and mame other people?

Any resources spent on murderers other than the lethal injection costs are a waste.

[Shawn Lutz]

I think with DNA evidence today where guilt is not in question...speed up the executions to save tax payers some coin

Speaking of Cleveland, http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/06/...led/index.html this guy needs to get to the front of death row...

[Cleveland Metal]

Yeah, it's nuts here. That's about mile or two from my house.

[Phantom Hawk]

"Soilent Green"...I remember that movie sucking the balls. I saw it once when I was a kid, but that was enough.

Yeah man, that movie sucked more than balls. But aside from harvesting their organs or using them for medical experiments, feeding them to starving people is one of very few ways they could ever contribute to society. We are, after all, just animals and meat is meat. I know a lot of people would be repulsed by the idea, but I'm sure we could come up with a good pr campaign to to make it ok. For instance, we could grind up all the ones with Polish ancestry and have Kielbasa Thursdays at the shelter !

[Strangletooth]

I think with DNA evidence today where guilt is not in question...speed up the executions to save tax payers some coin

Speaking of Cleveland, http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/06/...led/index.html this guy needs to get to the front of death row...

I saw that yesterday Shawn, bad shit to say the least, and yes, front of the line for him... Dead Man Walking!

As for the rest, well, the liberals/Dems, etc are always out for human rights and fighting for those less fortunate, which is fine in most cases. But basically what you're saying is that we need to lock up the retarded, err "mentally challenged" when they're young so this sort of thing doesn't happen, (by the true mentally ill folk in this country) so where are their rights? Sure, it's always something like this that creates a lot of contraversy after the fact, not to mention a ton of pain for all involved. But you can't have it both ways, so which is it?

John, you're absolutely right, and to add to it, the liberal and constitutional lawyers have fought for a lot of rights for the criminal mind. Republicans have historically been tougher on crime and criminals in general.

As for the bus and Bush, etc... The people who "really" need to be on this bus are any and all of the Senators that voted for these bailouts, spending, errr stimulus packages/plans, tax hikes (the same ones that aren't really there, ya know), and the driver.... You guessed it, King Hussein himself, with Reid, Pelosi and Rambo very nearby! Not that I would wish death on these fine folk, I just tend not agree with much of what they have to say these days.

[Davey]

How about an 8 year old that accidentally shoots his friend with his parent's gun?

parents' fault, the owner of the weapon shuld be prosecuted as if he shot the kid, then revoke his right to be within 3ft of any firearm for all eternity.