Top Mount v. Recessed Trem

[vector]

I've always heard top mounts referred to as flush mount because it rests flush against the body as opposed to recessed into it.

Interesting...

That's what I was referring to- flush mount to me is a non recessed that is tight up against the body. I fully understand you can have a top mount or non-recessed that is still above the body thus, allowing some pulling sharp and the accompanying detuning in the event that a string breaks but that's NOT what I was referencing.

[xenophobe]

I've always heard top mounts referred to as flush mount because it rests flush against the body as opposed to recessed into it.

Interesting...

And this would be a flush mount or recessed trem. The trem is not touching the body at any point except where the knife edges touch the trem stud. There is no difference between string tension on this or a non-recessed trem.

[Ward]

And this would be a flush mount or recessed trem. The trem is not touching the body at any point except where the knife edges touch the trem stud. There is no difference between string tension on this or a non-recessed trem.

I understand the difference between the two (I've got some of each), I just found it interesting to find out after all this time that the terminology I had always heard was wrong. Flush to the body makes sense, but when I originally heard flush referring to flush against the body that made sense, so I never questioned it.

It was more of a 'huh, learn something new everyday' comment.

[xenophobe]

I understand the difference between the two (I've got some of each), I just found it interesting to find out after all this time that the terminology I had always heard was wrong. Flush to the body makes sense, but when I heard flush referring to flush against the body that made sense too, so I never questioned it.

It was more of a 'huh, learn something new everyday' comment.

The way I've always used the term was that "Flush Mount" just meant the top of the trem was flush with the body as opposed to a top mount or non-recessed which the trem is above the body. And a lot of people interchange top mount with non-recessed and flush mount with recessed. It's not a top-mount, non-recessed, stoptail, string-thru, v-trem or hardtail. Then again I could be wrong... that does happen from time to time.

[Ward]

Then again I could be wrong... that does happen from time to time.

Same here, that's why I'm always open to new info

[toejam]

I've always heard top mounts referred to as flush mount because it rests flush against the body as opposed to recessed into it.

Interesting...

I always thought that flush mounting for a Floyd meant resting on the body, too.

[Pointy]

So trem mounting can be either flush or recessed, but flush floyds can also be floating, right? Flush mounted floyds that rest against the body are dive-only, so no matter how many strings you break they should stay in pitch because the springs can't pull them back. Then again I never had one of those - or a strat trem.

Is there a dive-only recessed floyd that rests against the body or a flush mounted floyd with room for pull-ups?

[ginsambo]

Spring tension on both a recessed or top mount is exactly the same and this is demonstrated by the fact that the baseplate should, in both cases, be parallel to the body. However the exception is that if you are using a trem stop and over tensioning your springs on a top mount, or you are pervertedly over tensioning your springs and like denting the paint under the baseplate by having your baseplate permanently resting against the paint when it's not in use. However set up properly both trems should float. The only difference is that a recessed has more room to move back with spring tension when a string snaps, so there will be a much more noticeable detuning when it happens on a recessed. However a snapped string on a properly set up top mount will still make the guitar uselessly out of tune, as the trem is still floating, unless you are a pervert and have a trem stop or have it overtensioned hard up against the body laquer.

Of course you can float a top mount a lot more by shimming the neck and decreasing spring tension, as you can with a V trem, then the effects will be even more noticeable, but that is irrelevant, the fact remains that a string break on a recessed or top mount will still render both guitars completely out of tune....unless you are a pervert.

I suppose there is a theoretical scenario where the guitar's action is so low and the neck angle is such that it allows that the baseplate to be set up very low to the body, in which case it wouldn't go out of tune as much as standard, but you need some float and some clearance, otherwise you'll be chipping paint when you dive the bar.

[ginsambo]

You can set up recessed or top mount trems or even V trems to float and pull up or dive only to some extent, it all depends on your clearances and has nothing to do with spring or string tension. If you want a dive only recessed trem, just glue some coins with just 1/8" of clearance under it when it's set up floating, then it'll dive only and handle exactly the same as a standard set up top mount.

[j2379]

i dont know of any recessed dive only floyds. there are plenty of top mounted nonrecessed floyds that sit on the body, most Waynes since they dont have any neck angle. same with most early floyd conversions, either the bridge sits flat on the body, shim the neck to get a bit of float or route space for a trem pull up. those were the only options back in the day. while they are the same a back route and a recess route arent the same IMO. a back route allows for more room to raise pitch, a recess route lets the floyd itself sit in the face of the body. I had always thought flush mounted was flush with the face of the guitar or at least close to.

Personally NON recessed full floating. I learned on guitars with floating NON recessed floyds and badass bridges, recessed trems and hardtails just feel uncomfortable now. I have gotten better since ive been playing my V-trem strat more.

funny i find it easier switching scale lengths than bridge heights.

[j2379]

basically you are correct but NOT. you are forgetting about the addition of the angle at which the springs are pulling. while its a very little difference, there is a difference. while you say the floyd should sit parallel to the body, the strings are not parallel with the body unless its a V-trem conversion or a flush mount trem. full floating the strings have 2-4degrees angle, 2-4degrees is not a lot, but it doesnt take much to put a floating trem out of balance.


I have at least 2 guitar setup with no pull up, dive only. if you break a string YES it stays in tune, YES you can do drop D without the other 5 strings going completely out of tune. NO it doesnt take that much spring tension to keep the bridges locked down against the body. granted i do have a guitar setup w 12's in Eflat, that fucker is locked down tight. you could probably bend cheap trem arms with that thing.

Spring tension on both a recessed or top mount is exactly the same and this is demonstrated by the fact that the baseplate should, in both cases, be parallel to the body. However the exception is that if you are using a trem stop and over tensioning your springs on a top mount, or you are pervertedly over tensioning your springs and like denting the paint under the baseplate by having your baseplate permanently resting against the paint when it's not in use. However set up properly both trems should float. The only difference is that a recessed has more room to move back with spring tension when a string snaps, so there will be a much more noticeable detuning when it happens on a recessed. However a snapped string on a properly set up top mount will still make the guitar uselessly out of tune, as the trem is still floating, unless you are a pervert and have a trem stop or have it overtensioned hard up against the body laquer.

Of course you can float a top mount a lot more by shimming the neck and decreasing spring tension, as you can with a V trem, then the effects will be even more noticeable, but that is irrelevant, the fact remains that a string break on a recessed or top mount will still render both guitars completely out of tune....unless you are a pervert.

I suppose there is a theoretical scenario where the guitar's action is so low and the neck angle is such that it allows that the baseplate to be set up very low to the body, in which case it wouldn't go out of tune as much as standard, but you need some float and some clearance, otherwise you'll be chipping paint when you dive the bar.

[Pointy]

However set up properly both trems should float.

Proper or not, aren't there a lot of players who set their floyds (and v-trems) up to rest against the body?

(I am not challenging you, it is an honest question for clarification)

[toejam]

I have at least 2 guitar setup with no pull up, dive only. if you break a string YES it stays in tune, YES you can do drop D without the other 5 strings going completely out of tune. NO it doesnt take that much spring tension to keep the bridges locked down against the body. granted i do have a guitar setup w 12's in Eflat, that fucker is locked down tight. you could probably bend cheap trem arms with that thing.

+1. When I owned my '05 Charvel Star, the trem was floating not even a quarter-inch above the body. I decided I only wanted to divebomb and no pull-ups, so I dropped the trem onto the body and shimmed the saddles so the strings wouldn't bottom out on the frets. It stayed in tune perfectly and wouldn't go out of tune if a string broke, and I used 10s on it in either E or Eb, but I think I had 4 or 5 springs on it.

[ginsambo]

I don't know how you can all play like that. I didn't realise that was so common. Maybe for jugga jugga, but for sweet and fast 12 step bends, the baseplate would be knocking on the body all the time with me and personally I couldn't live with it. I've never had a floating trem that stayed in tune when a string broke. Not even for a bitty 09 E string. DTunas necessitate a trem stop or the baseplate resting on the body, otherwise they don't work. I get that spring numbers/patterns have an influence, but I don't get that a floating trem, with 1/4" of body clearance wouldn't go out of tune with a string break, can you remember how you had the springs configured? I only use three.

[xenophobe]

I always thought that flush mounting for a Floyd meant resting on the body, too.

And I would consider that a botched installation. The base plate of a Floyd shouldn't rest against the body at all in any circumstance.

If a Floyd were meant to be installed that way it would probably have to have individually adjustable saddles unless you modify the string height off the neck with shims in the neck pocket...