Charvel Announced new models

[Theebs]

I clicked on that link, then started look at the other guitars.

And I have a question, did they stop making the crossed swords and the bomber warren models? They only have the skull and the snakeskin listed....just a few days ago they all were listed....

did they get discontinued or something?

[Robert Hendrix]

Actually, I tend to agree with g_reaper. I refuse to buy a Chinese guitar, especially at a 6,7 or 800 dollar price point. There are many other guitars out there for the same and even lower price point that do not come from China, a country that is well known for questionable quality and sweat shop labor tactics. As much as I would love to have a Star in my stable, I don't see myself getting one of these. I picked up a single cut in a store recently and, while it was an ok guitar, it did not compell me to take it home. That said, I also realize that I am not the target consumer for this model. the desolation series is tageted at "the kids." New and younger players, with thier eyes on the LTD and Schecter models. These guitars were designed to compete with those lines, The hellraisers and eclipses, not the USA and Japanese model Charvels with an already loyal following.

[Rich#6]

comparing a new guitar to a great deal that comes along once in a while is a stupid comparison. all the ltd ans schecters at these price points are chinese or indonesian.

[g_reaper]

to me its like every day not once in a while. I can go on Craigs list, Ebay, or for that matter to Guitar Center on the used Rack and *there are "real" guitars there EVERYDAY. I just dont have 800$ every day to buy them..Thats why I say lets not fool ourselves. If youve ever played a well crafted guitar live in an auditorium or live out of a marshall you know that these China guitars are for sh_t no matter what pickups you put in them. again low quality woods that are not cured properly. Sure these are probably heavy wood ( thicker ) and they sound better in the bedroom than a plastic toy but lets face it luthiers know that PRS and Gibson custom shop, Fender custom shops of today use woods etc. ( raw materials ) that cost them probably like *20X the cost of the wood they use on these chinese, indonesian or whatever..and im not even mentioning whos putting these together in china..

It really is like comparing a Mercedes Benz to a Hyundai except, unlike cars, a guitar usually gets better with time and a little extra care. In most instances retains its value for decades if you choose to spend you 800$ wisely. That just ike my though of the day :-)

comparing a new guitar to a great deal that comes along once in a while is a stupid comparison. all the ltd ans schecters at these price points are chinese or indonesian.

[Axegrinder87]

You're absolutely right. Why do they even make new guitars, when we should be buying old ones? I think Jackson/Charvel need to address this....

[Chad]

to me its like every day not once in a while. I can go on Craigs list, Ebay, or for that matter to Guitar Center on the used Rack and *there are "real" guitars there EVERYDAY. I just dont have 800$ every day to buy them..Thats why I say lets not fool ourselves. If youve ever played a well crafted guitar live in an auditorium or live out of a marshall you know that these China guitars are for sh_t no matter what pickups you put in them. again low quality woods that are not cured properly. Sure these are probably heavy wood ( thicker ) and they sound better in the bedroom than a plastic toy but lets face it luthiers know that PRS and Gibson custom shop, Fender custom shops of today use woods etc. ( raw materials ) that cost them probably like *20X the cost of the wood they use on these chinese, indonesian or whatever..and im not even mentioning whos putting these together in china..

It really is like comparing a Mercedes Benz to a Hyundai except, unlike cars, a guitar usually gets better with time and a little extra care. In most instances retains its value for decades if you choose to spend you 800$ wisely. That just ike my though of the day :-)

I don't agree with you on the wood subject. Every piece of wood and every guitar is unique and can be good or bad regardless of its origins, weight, price, etc. There are some very expensive USA & Japan guitars with "expensive" wood and the guitars are deader than a door nail. On the contrary, there can be Chinese, Indonesia, etc. guitars with multi-piece bodies made of budget wood that resonate and sound great. I would agree that there's probably a better chance you'll get a better guitar with better wood made in the USA or Japan, but it certainly isn't guaranteed.

[vector]

Couple o ' things to consider: 1) at $600- 700 a pop, these Desolations are aimed at the discerning expectations of the not-quite-intermediate-but-not-beginner-guitarist-with-cash demographic. Basically, financially solvent kiddies who want to look the part While intermediate to advanced players MIGHT consider them, the likelihood is they won't comprise the majority of those who do purchase one.
2) Chinese labor practices and quality are deplorable. No doubt, there are those out there that have gotten some half decent Chinese or Indonesian axes. But it's a gamble. Personally, I'd rather not. YMMV.
3) While it rankles me that J/C is trying to pass off Chinese scrapwood with decent pups and shiny paint as quality instruments for the serious player, in the end, it's business. Nothing we say or do is gonna change that. All we can do is hope that the line is successful enough for them to start offering higher quality, pro mod versions of them because really, they ARE bad ass looking axes with decent features. I'd have sold my grangma into slavery to have a pro mod neck thru, 24 fret Star w/ Floyd and active pups for under a grand. Just 86 the funky inlays and binding.

[Robert Hendrix]

Couple o ' things to consider: 1) at $600- 700 a pop, these Desolations are aimed at the discerning expectations of the not-quite-intermediate-but-not-beginner-guitarist-with-cash demographic. Basically, financially solvent kiddies who want to look the part While intermediate to advanced players MIGHT consider them, the likelihood is they won't comprise the majority of those who do purchase one.
2) Chinese labor practices and quality are deplorable. No doubt, there are those out there that have gotten some half decent Chinese or Indonesian axes. But it's a gamble. Personally, I'd rather not. YMMV.
3) While it rankles me that J/C is trying to pass off Chinese scrapwood with decent pups and shiny paint as quality instruments for the serious player, in the end, it's business. Nothing we say or do is gonna change that. All we can do is hope that the line is successful enough for them to start offering higher quality, pro mod versions of them because really, they ARE bad ass looking axes with decent features. I'd have sold my grangma into slavery to have a pro mod neck thru, 24 fret Star w/ Floyd and active pups for under a grand. Just 86 the funky inlays and binding.

+10000000000000

[g_reaper]

so we have a Charvel for every price point... for the sake of conversation.. Thats all Im trying to do...make conversation..

We know theres Custom Shop,* the made in Japan, and now Desolation..

Current Price structure:
Custom Shop = 3 grand
Japan = 1500$
Desolation= Everything else under 1K

Resale value once you drive it off the lot...

Custom Shop = 65%
Japan = 50%
Desolation = 30%

*am I wrong?..

and in 5 years I would say all three of the above will be even less..... IMHO

You're absolutely right. Why do they even make new guitars, when we should be buying old ones? I think Jackson/Charvel need to address this....

[Rich#6]

Japan = 1500$

you mean $900

[canadian bacon]

Companies destroy brands all the time. And if they execute really well, they will make loads of money in the process of "selling out". Management gets bonuses.

Then, after the market is thoroughly saturated, the product is sold through every discount retailer, and new buyers no longer associate "Brand X" with being high end the company tries to recapture what made it great in the first place. I think there are many examples where country of manufacture and price point have changed our perception of certain other guitar manufacturers over the years.

Not saying this is what Charvel is doing, but it happens.

[Confuse-a-Cat]

You're left with a choice, really. You can offer instruments at most price points. There'll be old time fans who complain that the cheaper stuff is "ruining the brand", but the brand prospers. The kids buy the cheaper models, and like them. They become brand-loyal and then when they have more cash they buy the more expensive models.

Or, you can stick to selling a handful of custom guitars. You won't make much money out of it, but at least the grumpy old fans can be pleased that they never 'sold out'. Meanwhile, those kids buy LTDs and grow up as loyal ESPee fanboys.

[canadian bacon]

My first guitar was a cheap "Hurricane by Morris" wannabe super-strat. Price mattered, but I would not have recognized the difference between good quality and poor quality at the time.

I didn't become loyal, I graduated to my first Charvel.

Having said that, my first Charvel was a 750xl which I bought because I couldn't afford the Jackson next to it. First thing I did was remove the "made in Japan" sticker, yet now I still have it and wouldn't dream of trading it for the Jackson that sat next to it.

[magh8]

The goal as a manufacturer of anything is to hold and gain market share so you must offer a product at every level and price scale.its not "selling out" its survival.....I've been playing jackson and charvel guitars for over 20 years now and starter with the bottom of the brand.I have owned many others over the years but always went back to jackson and charvel

[canadian bacon]

The goal as a manufacturer of anything is to hold and gain market share so you must offer a product at every level and price scale.

Disagree - this is just becoming part of the rat race. Highest volume sales does not necessarily correlate to success or even profitability. And if you define success as building an iconic brand, it can be damaging.

But it may be Charvel's goal to gain total market share in this manner - it's not wrong, it will just make it difficult to justify premium "custom shop" appeal at the other end of the spectrum.