Charvel USA Productions Models made by who? Click for the answer!

[alanhindle]

I'm very happy with the informtion given by the OP. It's a USA made production line guitar made by properly trained personnel who are making them in the spirit of the brand name. You get the best of both worlds here.

When you also think of it, it's probably not a good idea to have people regularly chopping and changing between performing production and CS activities for the sake of both types of instrument.

[Biff Montana]

Funny thing is 20 years from now a bunch of guitar geeks, much like ourselves, will be sitting around chatting online,
posting on a forum; or whatever it is we’ll be doing in 20 years, talking about how the 08-09 USA Production series Charvels are the cat’s meow.
Folks will be pontificating about how build specs and standards were much better than the current (2029) models.
I can imagine furious debates over how humans in the 2009 Fender factory were much better
at building guitars than the 2029 robots in Chinese factories.

[6string40]

I didn't think an FYI was getting my blood pressure up.:think:

I completely misread your post! HAHA! Sorry bout that bro!

[85 San Dimas]

What to you has changed? Production line guitars made by people trained by the charvel guys to do it the charvel way. So fucking what if for the rest of the time they make fenders. If someday charvel sales go way up I am sure they won't be. Stop being such a charvel purist and stop living the late 70's and early 80's over and over again.
there is nothing new here to say see I told you so. You seem like a nice guy but give it a rest already. Go buy your superior old ones with the v trems, kahlers, or jt6s and let us be happy with our inferior guitars that stay in tune.
Thank you

Nothing has changed except that the facts have come out. Those facts happen to support what I've (and some others) been saying all along. So, to put this post up makes makes no sense at all except as proof that you want to argue. What has been proven is that guitar is a great value. As long as FMIC wouldn't fess up about this stuff then people had to "wonder" what they were buying. THAT HAS NOW CHANGED. It'd be nice if you could recognize the great value of that. The PRO-MODS are now PROVEN bargains. Not subjective bargains.

It is now clear that every post you have made on the subject challenging my fact set was incorrect.

I didn't say "see I told you so." I didn't have to. That isn't what this is about. Its about getting people like YOU the information they need to make an informed decision seperate form marketing hype and bullshit. Newc is big on the trems for one thing. I'm big on the build, others love the necks, etc.

Just remember. Ignorance is correctable, but stupid is forever.
Get over it. I didn't win..WE ALL DID.

[6string40]

I have to admit that I too was critical of 85SD, but now knowing what we know, I think he's done a fairly good job of explaining his position here as well as admitting that this is a quality product, something I don't think he was willing to do without having facts.

I still don't agree at all with the real vs copy argument, but nonetheless...

[fullmetalguitar]

Some other facts: not everyone working on the Charvel and Jackson have been there forever. I saw about 4 people doing the final install and setup. Two of the guys looked like they were in their early twenties. Definitely very young. Now, they haven't been building Charvels for the past twenty years, so does that mean that a guitar done by them is not a real Charvel? All of the long term custom shop guys will eventually retire and be replaced. Hell, there are some young dudes working down there now. I saw a young guy running the machine that was routing the side of the necks so that the binding could be put on. The USA Production Model Charvels are Charvels in every sense of the word, just not custom shop Charvels. That's my opinion anyway, and everyone is entitled their own.

[Rich#6]

Nothing has changed except that the facts have come out. Those facts happen to support what I've (and some others) been saying all along. So, to put this post up makes makes no sense at all except as proof that you want to argue. What has been proven is that guitar is a great value. As long as FMIC wouldn't fess up about this stuff then people had to "wonder" what they were buying. THAT HAS NOW CHANGED. It'd be nice if you could recognize the great value of that. The PRO-MODS are now PROVEN bargains. Not subjective bargains.

It is now clear that every post you have made on the subject challenging my fact set was incorrect.

I didn't say "see I told you so." I didn't have to. That isn't what this is about. Its about getting people like YOU the information they need to make an informed decision seperate form marketing hype and bullshit. Newc is big on the trems for one thing. I'm big on the build, others love the necks, etc.

Just remember. Ignorance is correctable, but stupid is forever.
Get over it. I didn't win..WE ALL DID.

How do you think we were mislead by bionic? We were told they were not made by the custom shop guys and were made on the line by people trained to make charvels. I see nothing new here. I never thought we were mislead. You seem to be the only one to me that was unsure about whatever it was. The only thing that has changed for me is that I used to think you were an OK guy but a pain in the ass. Now you just being a condecending dick.

[85 San Dimas]

Some other facts: not everyone working on the Charvel and Jackson have been there forever. I saw about 4 people doing the final install and setup. Two of the guys looked like they were in their early twenties. Definitely very young. Now, they haven't been building Charvels for the past twenty years, so does that mean that a guitar done by them is not a real Charvel? All of the long term custom shop guys will eventually retire and be replaced. Hell, there are some young dudes working down there now. I saw a young guy running the machine that was routing the side of the necks so that the binding could be put on. The USA Production Model Charvels are Charvels in every sense of the word, just not custom shop Charvels. That's my opinion anyway, and everyone is entitled their own.

All IMHO.........this apprenticeship is to be applauded. This is how it has to be. The people who KNOW teaching the people who don't. If this truly occurs then Charvel lives on. Passing the craft. Just changing production location kills that because of no "apprenticeship". Those young guys are the next gen masterbuilders. I always believe we need to try and support FMIC/Charvel/Jackson moves that keep the product quality up and price reasonable so that the apprenticeship is "profitable". And to be skeptical of those moves that don't. To me (and others) that was the purpose of the Pro-Mod line. To build profitability into the brand.

I was always poised to fully support the Pro-Mods IF we could get enough info. I kept saying "show me" and someone did. What we have now is a guitar that can be bought, retro-fitted w/ a different bridge, or plek'd, or have the upgraded electronics put in and STILL be cheaper than the (equal) AM. Std (both guitars selling new) and have the neck we want. That's a freakin' winner all the way and something I'd damn sure consider buying AND advising others to buy.

The Am. Stds can be had for 6 or so all day long used in the US. then you'd need a neck and a floyd (if you want a lock trem), plus pups, etc. and neck.

For the same 550-6 used (or more new) you can get the Charvel already built but maybe needs some tweaking. The Fender that charged a premium new has not held its value used, so again the Pro-Mod becomes the value.

I'm truly thrilled at what we've got here. Time to spread the word that we are equal in quality and superior in "shreddyness" than an AM Std. and for less money. Will I still say they can be better? Sure. But Am. Stds. could be too, and now we owe no apologies and give nothing away to an Am. Std. Strat. by proof, not conjecture. That's great.

This kills, and its actually better than even many thought. Anyway starting to repeat my self. Thanks guys (and you too 6string40) it's all good. Now I have new horse to beat...the "Why aren't you buying a So-Cal and how can we make it better without making it more expensive?" thread.

[alanhindle]

Nothing has changed except that the facts have come out. Those facts happen to support what I've (and some others) been saying all along. So, to put this post up makes makes no sense at all except as proof that you want to argue. What has been proven is that guitar is a great value. As long as FMIC wouldn't fess up about this stuff then people had to "wonder" what they were buying. THAT HAS NOW CHANGED. It'd be nice if you could recognize the great value of that. The PRO-MODS are now PROVEN bargains. Not subjective bargains.

..........

I didn't say "see I told you so." I didn't have to. That isn't what this is about. Its about getting people like YOU the information they need to make an informed decision seperate form marketing hype and bullshit. Newc is big on the trems for one thing. I'm big on the build, others love the necks, etc.

You're dead right about FMIC doing nothing to dampen the hype. The colours thing is what gets me. It gives the subliminal impression that what is coming out every 3 months, by being limited and special, is in some way 'custom'. I've said this before, but it's a piece of marketing genius. What's more it's torture for those of us who are trying our hardest to resist GAS. You've gotta hand it to them!

As you say '85, they're great value guitars made to the same standard as a production USA Fender. I love my SD1 (and it's in boring old black!) To me, custom shop is for pros and semi pros so my production SD1 suits a home player like me nicely.

Now I'm off for a blast on my hot rodded Fender Strat (AKA Charvel).

Alan

[Newc]

85SD - I musta missed the part in the other thread about "no corners were cut vs the Custom Shop" - that was a long thread

Anyhoo, my opinion of the brand and the guitar haven't changed. I like them, and I consider them as much "real" Charvels as the old Model series.

It's kinda cool in a way that it took Fender almost 30 years, but they have finally been taught how to properly hot rod the Strat
Rather than simply copying Jackson/Charvel (HM Strat anyone?) they let the Masters teach them how to do it right, and they can put the right logo on it.

The HM Strats were always "Charvel copies" to me (since they were a reaction to the growing popularity of Charvel at the time, not something initiated by Fender), but the Charvel Model models were "Strats done better".


Anyhoo, I'm sure there'll be a few people bail over this news, but that means more chance for me to nab a limited color

[6string40]

Anyhoo, I'm sure there'll be a few people bail over this news, but that means more chance for me to nab a limited color

WTF???? :think: You already own them ALL!!!!

[AK47]

I remember when the buyout went down in 2003 and we were told that Fender will have nothing to do with making Jackson guitars. I dont remember them making any promises about Charvel.

I am not complaining just pointing a few things out. I think the Charvel production idea was genius and would like to see tele heads.

[Grandturk]

I need to go back to the corners thread. I seem to recall bionic saying something about completely seperate equipment and people... Of course this doesn't make sense in a factory, but why say it?

edit:

OK - I found where Mike stated that the guitars are made in a "Production Environment" in one post, and "the Charvel production line." Technically he never said the Charvel line was completely separate from any other production line. Either way, I don't care, but I will say the following:

In this day and age where information is flowing around the airwaves - it behooves any organization to allow the customer free access to their processes and techniques. I don't care if you're making widgets or polishing turds - let the people in. Post up factory tour videos. Invite people to come see the factory and take pictures. Geez - look at the Whiskey industry - they make their living on promoting themselves through tours. Hard fact is better than speculation - even if you're just showing Mike Shannon hand rubbing the neck of a guitar - boring, but it is expected these days.

[MEX3]

Actually, I think Bionic told some whoppers in post #230 in the cut corners thread.

Ok, this is quite possibly the most "all over the map" thread I have ever been involved with... and that is saying a lot...as I used to moderate a Counter Strike Forum...

With that said, there are items that you have posted as "fact". They are not facts...

1. The USA Production Model Series are made from the very same components and materials that have in the past AND future been found on varied Charvel Custom Shop Guitars. Even the Bridge!

2. There is a Charvel Production Line. These are Charvel Employees.

3. The Custom Shop and the Production Line are separated by a wall. Both product lines are under the same roof.

4. These ARE Charvel Machines. We tooled up for this series with some state of the art CNC's etc...

These are not Copies. They are USA Made Production Models. To frame this...simply, look at the American Standard Stratocaster and then look at a Custom Shop Stratocaster. Just like Charvel, the price points come in differently due to the process and the amount of handwork.

This guitar is designed for the re-emerging shredder. The production Series Model is the off the shelf Tool that plays and feels great. There is no other USA Made Guitar, with these features, for this price that can compare. (IMHO)

The Custom Shop is for the more discerning player. You pick the options, the materials and the wood, the color and type of paint. They are made by the best of the best. They take significantly more time to build... think of the Custom Shop guitars like a "works bike". (any dirt bike riders out there?)

I hope this puts the products into some perspective. I have tried to stay out of this thread... but I felt I HAD to at least address some assumptions that consistantly appeared.

I love the passion!!!

Mike

1: I'm sure if the custom shop actually built guitars with the same specs including the bridge, it was only because they built the protos for the series.

2: There is no Charvel production line and they are built by Fender employees. They might get billed out to Charvel for the 10 hours per month they are working on the Charvels, but It's less than honest to call them Charvel employees.

3: It wouldn't surprize me at all if the locations of the machines is not as Bionic describes, but it doesn't really matter.

4: No, Charvel didn't tool up at all by buying new CNC machines. It's the Fender line.

I'll stick with building my parts guitars and throwing Charvel logos on them. They are just as legit as the FMIC Charvels IMO.

[Grandturk]

Actually, I think Bionic told some whoppers in post #230 in the cut corners thread..

That's the one I was looking for.

2: There is no Charvel production line and they are built by Fender employees. They might get billed out to Charvel for the 10 hours per month they are working on the Charvels, but It's less than honest to call them Charvel employees..

Well, they're all Fender employees - the Charvel guys, the Gretch guys - who else... Ovation, Hamer, SWR, Tacoma, Genz Benz...

4: No, Charvel didn't tool up at all by buying new CNC machines. It's the Fender line. .

I agree - I mean, they may have needed to change some programs, maybe buy some new bits for the router, but other than that - they shouldn't have needed any special equipment. If they were not shutting down the American Standard Strat line while they were building the Charvels, then of course they would need to tool up another production line. But it sounds to me like they shut down the line, reconfigure it, build some Charvels, shut it down, reconfigure it and go back to building Strats.

This is OK by me - that's the way Henry Ford did it and I expect nothing less from a good upstanding capitalist company in a free market economy.

But like I said before - be up front and honest about it. Transparancy is job 1 in 2009.

I'll stick with building my parts guitars and throwing Charvel logos on them. They are just as legit as the FMIC Charvels IMO.

Uh.... not really - its a parts mutt with a sticker.