What corners were cut on the production models

[Grandturk]

Hey 85 - good discussion... But what's with all the Kramer references? Are you a spy from the Kramer forum??? Was my Focus 2000 a real Kramer? It had a real Floyd on it and it was made in NJ based on the neck plate.

LOL. I made myself laugh.

[85 San Dimas]

Hey 85 - good discussion... But what's with all the Kramer references? Are you a spy from the Kramer forum??? Was my Focus 2000 a real Kramer? It had a real Floyd on it and it was made in NJ based on the neck plate.

LOL. I made myself laugh.

Was it white? More at the bottom...

And I appreciate the feedback always...even if I don't like it. I'm hoping that my enthusiasm for the guitars comes through rather than my contempt for modern marketing practices (that's really, unfortunately, what this all is)

No, not a spy from the KF. I do own (and have owned) some Kramers and they're okay-especially the ones made pre- Baretta, and the "real" Nightswans were good. The neckthroughs from ESP were good. The classic Kramer argument is "made in the USA" (from parts unknown) and no one really "knows" anything, no bldg. standards, nothing-so EVERYTHING is legit by some twisted logic. I use Kramer for a great example of mass-produced parts made elsewhere and put together here. Like Robin, St. Blues, Texas Schecter, etc. (same basic parts). So my comparison. I prefer the way ESP does the lower line. Charvel and Kramer are not the same, and I don't want them to have too many similarities.

I just don't want that to happen w/Charvel. I don't want any confusion (that's why I hate the SD neckplates). I'd prefer the plate changed to "So-Cal by Charvel San Dimas" and leave the headstock logo as is....and then I'd be happy as hell. We as a community don't need SD and SDCS "near" copy plates in circulation even if they aren't totally identical. To the untrained eye they're close enough, and it's too easy to abuse. A quick look on the internet and its easy to miss the "Made In Usa" difference. People aren't going to take those plates off of 2K Charvels to sell. Damages the value of the guitar too much. I love the So-Cal for what it is. I love this site, and I love what these were/are.

Now that I've beaten the thread to death I'm gonna quit. LOL. I appreciate everyone who yelled at me, and the new white so cal is neat.
Glad they put the Zebras in or it wouldn't look right.

BTW I had a beak-neck Focus 3000 white/black (Jake E. Lee) with white headstock in 85. So, I'm with ya man. Thanks.

Greg (85 San Dimas)

[AndyK]

After reading this entire long thread (a really great thread), I would just like to ad a point that hasn't been brought up. These production San Dimas Charvels are the current offering from the modern version of the Charvel/Jackson/Fender corporation. Period. Whether they are just like the old ones, better, much worse, isn't really the point. If you want a NEW Charvel that isn't made by the custom shop - this is it! Same goes for any new car you would buy today. Walk into a Honda dealer, and feel the crap metal the doors are made of, the light weight materials used, etc, etc. The cars from the 80's were much heavier, made of heavier steel, and just felt more durable (sound familiar?). But if you want a new car from Honda (made in Ohio instead of a city in Japan, BTW), this is what you get.

Someone mentioned that the So Cal body has Fender routing in it, surmising that it was a Fender body, painted like a Charvel, with a nicer shaped neck, and a Floyd. To me, this IS what Charvel was about! Take a Strat body, mod it, slap a better neck on, better pickups, a Floyd - the hotroded guitar! I think the new Charvel is doing that. I bet the Fender line guys are scared of the Charvel "crazies"! At least I would like to think that there is a "No Fender Guys Allowed" sign at the door to Charvel's paint booth!

Rock on Charvel/Fender/FMIC, whatever!

[jet66]

The body is routed slightly different vs. a Strat. Where the volume control goes on a Strat, there is a little 'horn' of wood between the humbucker route and the control cavity. The bridge bucker is also seems to be a hair more towards the bridge than on a Fender (brand) pickguard routed for a bridge bucker.

[Jacksonite]

just to play devil's advocate

here are a USA tele and SD2
and a USA Strat and a SD1

SIDE BY SIDE...

they arent the same...

[Bionic]

just to play devil's advocate

here are a USA tele and SD2
and a USA Strat and a SD1

SIDE BY SIDE...

they arent the same...

Be careful...they may fight!

[Jacksonite]

Be careful...they may fight!

[85 San Dimas]

If you want a NEW Charvel that isn't made by the custom shop - this is it!

If a person wants a new Charvel not made by the Custom Shop then IMHO they don't want a Charvel. They want something that looks like it, has the decal, etc. , but is inexpensive enough to pry wallets open. Voila: So-Cal.
In all honesty not all can afford 2300 and not all want to pay that. (That's why there is a used market) I understand the affordability problem, but unfortunately that's what a Charvel costs.......

At least I would like to think that there is a "No Fender Guys Allowed" sign at the door to Charvel's paint booth!

..and I think if they hung a no Fender guys sign on the entrance to the paint booth then I think the color choices would shrink to one: bare wood. It just wouldn't make any sense to task a seperate paint crew to run Charvel only. Not enough units involved and money savings is a big deal on these to hit price point. I love your enthusiasm for the line though.

Rock on Charvel/Fender/FMIC, whatever!

Of those choices I think "Whatever" is probably most accurate for So-Cals. Again, I didn't say they weren't good guitars. What they "are" was what we were originally trying to figure out. And also, I'm not taking a big issue with your post. I'm having a little fun with it, but I do seriously believe only the Charvel CS is "Charvel".

[shreddermon]

:dead:

Geez, just let it go.

[Grandturk]

:dead:

Geez, just let it go.

Now who's Captain Obvious?

[AndyK]

..If a person wants a new Charvel not made by the Custom Shop then IMHO they don't want a Charvel. They want something that looks like it, has the decal, etc. , but is inexpensive enough to pry wallets open. Voila: So-Cal.
In all honesty not all can afford 2300 and not all want to pay that. (That's why there is a used market) I understand the affordability problem, but unfortunately that's what a Charvel costs.......

Actually, from what I remember, in the mid 80's, the guitars with Jackson on the headstock were the "custom" guitars, and the Charvels were more readily available ("production" custom?). I guess the necks were all more hand-made, and the guitars were put together by a smaller group, rather than a larger (Fender) group.

..and I think if they hung a no Fender guys sign on the entrance to the paint booth then I think the color choices would shrink to one: bare wood. It just wouldn't make any sense to task a seperate paint crew to run Charvel only. Not enough units involved and money savings is a big deal on these to hit price point. I love your enthusiasm for the line though.

Ha! good point. Although the videos on the Charvel website show a small paint area that seems seperate from the Fender line.

Of those choices I think "Whatever" is probably most accurate for So-Cals. Again, I didn't say they weren't good guitars. What they "are" was what we were originally trying to figure out. And also, I'm not taking a big issue with your post. I'm having a little fun with it, but I do seriously believe only the Charvel CS is "Charvel".

I agree that the So Cal isn't a custom shop product. But I think these new guitars are WAY more Charvel than a "Model" series from the late 80's was!

[Carbuff]

just to play devil's advocate

here are a USA tele and SD2
and a USA Strat and a SD1

SIDE BY SIDE...

they arent the same...

Hey, how come you dont have to ask before handling the Charvels?

[shreddermon]

Now who's Captain Obvious?

That certainly may be. But, from the tone of your post, it sounds like you may be confusing me with someone else who might've previously accused you of being el' Capitan? :think:

[Grandturk]

That certainly may be. But, from the tone of your post, it sounds like you may be confusing me with someone else who might've previously accused you of being el' Capitan? :think:

Nah - I was just insinuating that we were all in on beating the dead horse, and certainly from my point of view: enjoying the continuation of said beatings.

No harm meant.

[shreddermon]

It's all good - no ill intent perceived. Just thought you might be confusing me with someone else with the "now" reference. ...Just my poor interpretation, though.