THE PRE PROS

[abalonevintage]

Re: THE PRE PROS

Hossman, most uf us "fanatics" have read those early EVH articles countless times...... [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Place them in chronological order and you will see that Eddie somewhat changed his "equipment" story after he got mad at Charvel (Grover).

-eric

[Hossman]

Re: THE PRE PROS

OK here we go [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I didn't update the CC Gallery due to this [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

The JacksonCharvelWorld.net site is under an unbiased reconstruction / rewrite at the moment.

This is the way I see the history and the definition of a pre pro charvel and its predecessors.

First I must ask did Leo Fender build the Fenders himself or were all the ideas behind his guitars his ideas?

Just as the Fenders were kit guitars put together by workmen and women under Leo so were Charvels only the workmen and parts were not concentrated into one area or factory for the pre production Charvel guitars. The workman were spread out between mainly Wayne and Lynn, including Schecter, Warmoth (the person) and Mighty Mite etc.

Van Halen was in search of a unique sound and a hybrid guitar was born from this search, it is what we know today as the SUPERSTRAT. The first SUPERSTRAT was a Pre CBS Fender Stratocaster that EVH installed a Hum in the Bridge position. With the intro to Wayne through Michael Anthony, EVH bought the Boogie Bodies parts (the body was a ¨second¨ under a stack of bodies in Waynes shop that EVH bought for $50 and then neck for $80) from Wayne, the workmen who was assembling repairing upgrading and painting these so called pre pro Charvel guitars since late 76 early 77 to late 78. I see the Charvel mfg company as factory with the workmen in different physical places rather than one factory with workers/builders in the same place. Even after the 78 buyout, I suspect Wayne still had a hand it what was going on at the Glendora building (San Dimas) with his remaining 10% share in Charvel mfg.

EVH made his second and most famous Superstrat from this Charvel mfg. company. Which was a company joined together by ISA and Wayne consisting of Boogie Bodies/Warmoth, Schecter and Mighty mite. Of course the money issue and handling of all the separate establishments became difficult to manage as they were all independently owned. So, there was a need for a central company to call itself a single guitar mfg. as the Charvel name was the name sticking to these kit guitars. The Gllendora facility was becoming the established Charvel factory. After the fact of the group Van Halen and other groups were becoming widely known for using Charvel products by early 1978 the opportunity arose to have a successful business in guitar mfg. under then name of Charvel. Therefore the production began with logoed Charvel guitars.

Grover Jackson was hired by Wayne in 1977. I would say Wayne made a few guitars between 1977 and 1978 before he left the establishment. Whether he cut the bodies and assembled them from scratch is irrelevent what is relevent is that he started the business of improving guitars and modding them with his pal Lynn cutting the wood in colaboration with Warmoth (the person). Both EVH and Michael Anthony are somewhat responsible for the Graphics
pertaining to 80s Charvels. The EVH striped SUPERSTRAT guitar and the Michael Anthony Blood Bass both were a huge impact on 80s guitars. EVH was not asked for permission on the Copied EVH Charvels and name attachment, that were being produced behind his back. Therefore, he put a stop to it either using his name but mainly the copying of his guitar or both. I suspect that many orders were coming in for these guitars or single hum superstrats and other graphic style and pup configed superstrats soon after the cease was in
order on the VHII and VHI guitars or VH name. I see no harm for Wayne to copy the graphic guitars of the 80s today as he did start the shop in the first place. EVH made the business survive back then for Lynn, Wayne and Jackson by the publicly using these products.

If time had permitted it and EVH had the desire for his own guitar mfg. In the beginning of his success, he could have owned the Charvel name with
Wayne. But his intensions at that time were focused on making music not business. And he did not like the fact of someone selling his guitar ideas and making a business out of it. But later, he ceased the opportunity to contract with Kramer, Earnie Ball and Peavey.

My definition of a pre pro Charvel is a parts guitar assembled by anyone that bought parts from Charvel or the other parts places joined by Wayne and ISA. Including the ones Wayne assembled and logoed of course.

My definition of a Production Charvel is one cut and assembled/fitted at the Charvel custom shop in Glendora (San Dimas).

So we have 3 types of production Charvels which are basically all the same except for the serialization schemes EARLY production (Pre serialized) no serial number. Early Production 5 digit serial number and Production 4 digit serial number which later had the headstock and fret numbers changes of course.

Again, just as Fender are actually kit guitars put together by workers/builder/assemblers so are Pre Pros and the 3 types of Pro Charvels.
It all came together under one roof evetually.

Bottom Line, I see no need to defame Wayne, Grover or EVH in the history of Charvel guitars. Rather I see every reason to praise their accomplishments as they are all hardworking people with extraordinary talents especially EVH.

Charvels (meaning Warmoth (the person), Lynn, Wayne, etc) were the unpaid without royalty or percentage/credit guitars of EVH's CHOICE and his true identity guitars in the early days of the Van Halen success . Kramers were a contracted use of a necks and guitars that were not used in studio
recordings other that the Ferrington A/E guitar.

Pre Pro Charvels were the no contract, choice guitars, of the EVH guitars that he played in his successful history of the guitars he used. Between the chosen to play and contracted to play guitars. :lol

I hope this puts things in a nutshell and clarifies the misconceived interview info. It is really hard to pinpoint the facts in such a diverse name as Charvel mfg. I have formed my opinion from various talks and articles I've read.

Again this is my view [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] of the early years. Grover Jackson was a hard worker (Busy Bee) also but that is another story.


Cheers all

[Hossman]

Re: THE PRE PROS

[Chuckracer]

Re: THE PRE PROS

Hossman, I understand the picture you are painting, but I think the way you see this history is indeed biased towards Wayne.

I mean, Paul Bigsby pretty well predated the Fender guitars by a few years by doing much the same things as Leo was a couple of years later. It was Leo who that style of guitar as it was made on the map.

Much the same as Grover did with Waynes small attempts.

Did Wayne invent the Superstrat? No way. Eddie did!

[ May 09, 2003, 02:57 AM: Message edited by: Chuckracer ]

[abalonevintage]

Re: THE PRE PROS

Good Post Hossman [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

I say there are Three production series of Charvels.

1. Boogie Parts guitars. (VERY freakin' few!)
2. One piece neck (Stratheads) made in-house. (Serialized or not.)
3. Pointy 2 piece neck era stuff.

I don't think Eddie bought the BB body & BB neck at the same time. I think he put the body on his Pre-CBS Strat first, and later changed the neck......Making that ONE Superstrat.....not two different guitars. [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

Wayne acted as a retailer to Eddie. He did not add any VALUE to the parts he sold him, therefore I consider Eddie's B&W guitar (and some others) to be Boogie Bodies. If Eddie would have bought the parts from the repair counter at Guitar Center, no one would be calling his B&W guitar a "GUITAR CENTER" Superstrat.

The B&Y is a Charvel since it was made by them (Even though it was BB parts.)

......Again, Eddie's main Franky (BW&R) had a Kramer neck, Kramer supplied Floyd Rose.......for EIGHT years.........

It was MORE Kramer than CHARVEL or anything else!!!!!

-eric

[ May 09, 2003, 04:28 AM: Message edited by: abalonevintage ]

[skidd]

Re: THE PRE PROS

Whos cares who did it first. I just glad it happend!I love "SuperStrats" OFR humbuckers etc!

[jr73]

Re: THE PRE PROS

I dont think eddie invented the superstrat he just made them famous, Im pretty sure ive seen OLD pics of , Dave Murray with humbucker equipt strats, also look at robbie robertsons strat from the last waltz HUM in the bridge im pretty sure thats Pre-eddie, & what about all the strats Wayne hot rodded while he was fenders customizer, those r all pre eddie. IMO Eddie gets way too much credit as does Wayne dont get me wrong they were important but the more info i see the less i think of both of them.
its kinda like asking who was more important to Cobras Mr.ford or Mr. Shelby

[Jim Shine]

Re: THE PRE PROS

Even Fender started having Seth Lover designed humbucker model guitars (granted they are Telecaster's) in the early 70's.

[yogadork]

Re: THE PRE PROS

This is the best thread in a long time on the JCF. I think that a very relevant point that is not being addressed here is the fact that just as Charvels evolved to be the hip guitar of the 80's it was preceeded by the fact that hip guitars of the seventies were the parts guitars that one would assemble oneself out of quality parts from Charvel, Schecter, Mighty Mite, Boogie Bodies et al. For those of you not around at the time I have to tell you just what a revelation it was and to hold in your hands a strat that did not fret out, was adorned with a body of beautiful woods and pickups that really delivered any sound you needed. Especially when holsing such a guitar up to a Fender production guitar of the time with those crappy heavy bodies of glued together wood and those stupid necks that would fret out and made bending such a chore. Even though I knew I was not capable of fashioning out a body or a neck or fretting an instrument it certainly was not rocket science to bolt one of these things together and figure out how to set it up and learn to solder. Frankly I believe there is a case to be made about the superiority of these early parts as compared to the guitars made after the onslaught of heavy metal commercialisiation that started in the early 80's. In the beginning very much like the music the guitar parts buisiness was on the cutting edge. These early manufacturers had a vested interest in making a superior product and were more interested in getting therir product out to a select few rather than supplying the demand of the masses which "metal" guitars came to be in the fad crazy middle eighties. The finishes became thicker poplar ??? became a "tonewood" and quite frankly tone became a very generic thing that was mostley amp driven and the metal makers got away with murder as far as tone coming from an instrument was concerned. I remember getting a Mighty Mite strat with a maple neck from heaven with Jumbo frets on a body with a perfect 50's sunburst finish. Since natural bodies were the rage I dutifully stripped mine down from the incredibly accurate vintage paint to find and incredible one piece ash body. I stained it an orange ( does anybody remember those tinted stains you could get back then). When I traded it in at a music shop I can still remember the salesman sighing at how cool the guitar was and this was a store ( Mannys) that usually tried to get your used stuff dirt cheap and was allowed a very generous trade in on a parts guitar ( wish I still had it). Funny that one of you guys labeled me the king of the mutts but I never understood the phrase "mutt". This was a guitar trend and seventies guitars that were built from parts were hardlly referred to as mutts but were at the time the cream of the crop and were the most expense guitars out there, especially when assembled by a boutique builder.This whole phenomenom was a part of the history of the evolution of American guitars and to deny anybody their place in history because a serial # was not attached to said product in my mind seems very strange but I di understand the psychology involved in doing so. IMHO it is silly to attach the same criteria to a musical vintage instrument as one would do to say a Chippendale table. The function of the 2 is so radically different and a superior instrument is just that and I would prefer that to a mint vintage instrument that has never been properly played and whos function seems to be that of objectification. Its silly to try and deny Wayne his place in the history of all this. The transition between Wayne selling to Grover and the pointy era of supply and demand was such a short window and if Wayne wasn't in finacial trouble the company would have evolved pretty much in the same way with Grover probably playing much the same role as he did when sole owner.I guess I just figured out that I'm probably a 70's type guy and very grateful that guys like Wayne and Warmoth (the man lol)and Schecter came along and left the fun and artisitic part of putting a guitar together up to the musician who IMHO should be capable of putting together an instrument such as a bolt on guitar as well as any company employee once the quality parts were acquired.

[slo100]

Re: THE PRE PROS

Fantastic post CC,

I would like to add one more point specific to your last point. I would say that most musicians (or at least a good %) are not as qualified to complete an instrument as a factory worker doing the job day in and day out. The key to the era you are describing was finding the people who could create a magical instrument out of the fine parts being manufactured. Wayne was one of them. There are guys still out there doing this like John Suhr, Roger Sadowsky, etc who build premium guitars not necessarily out of parts fabricated in their own shop.

I am convinced after having come across a number of Veneman sold Charvel necks that when a retailer ordered Charvel parts, they came with full neck profiles and unmilled frets. This left it up to the buyer to decide the profile and feel of the neck and the final leveling & crowning of the frets towards a completed instrument. I am pretty good with getting existing fretboards into playing shape by smoothing out high frets and such but I don't feel I am qualified and certainly not equipped to handle a fretjob from scratch. It is not hard to bolt a neck on a body, wire up the electronics, bolt on the hardware, and piece together a guitar. I do think it is quite difficult to perform the most important part which is leveling, crowning and dressing the fretboard and frets. That bit will make or break the guitar in its final form.

Anyway, the dawn of the premium guitar parts era gave birth to the "custom guitar builder" which of course gave birth to custom guitar manufacturers which gave birth to licensing arrangements and mass production of the very same corporate names who started out bucking the mass production trend in the first place. Hence the cycle of guitar life.

[yogadork]

Re: THE PRE PROS

you know Bret I used to be mystified by the fret leveling technique and afraid to do it until one more than one occasion I asked for the job to be done and right in front of me the the repairman would pop the strings and place the guitar securley on a work bench and file the frets with a sanding block and steel wool them for a few minutes and charge me $50 and I realized the secret was the sanding block [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] . Granted this is an oversimplification since dressing the frets requires a touch but really not far from it and again for the adventurous can become routine. Also since I happen to be one of those anal types about my frets the process of really dressing a fretboard is not one that is really solved in one pass (though the physics are in place)but one that takes days even weeks as each fret can be gone over in relation to its neighbor fret and the differences of each individual fretboard. I find this especially true in regards to bending and in the upper registers where a well placed tap with a mallet can be the difference between a fretting out or a clean minor third bend. Also it is my experience whith vintage Charvel necks that a lot of times the fret problems can be cured with tapping slightly loose frets that are higher than their neighbors than to sacrificing precious fret height and life from a leveling. Of course for me the old steel wool polishing act is one of the first acts performed when acquiring a new axe.

[sully]

Re: THE PRE PROS

[img]graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

well said. we're of the same cloth as far as parts guitars go; there's truly nothin like slappin parts together and callin it yours. i took the finish off of the back of my favorite guitar the other day (my 16th bday present to myself)and i was so happy with how it came out. i just have such a love for makin your own and messing with them that for years i wasn't interested in anything "off the racks." granted, a strat is pretty basic, but it just had so much more meaning to me, knowing that guitar was made for me. because it has no serial doesn't negate it at all.

i recognize that's not really the focus of the thread, so i apologize for the digression. i stay out of the whole "what wayne did or didn't do" issue b/c i don't really know. but if wayne, ken warmoth, and mr schecter weren't doing what they were doing, i may not be either...and i may have been missing out on some real joy.

sully

[z1n]

Sorry for resurrecting this thread but it's some good reading