NAD and you will never guess

[rocksoldier]

What is so difficult about dialing it in? To me the shortfall of the Vetta was always the amp modeling, the amp modeling feels very lo-fi to me.

I don't feel that way with my Kemper, just pick a Marshall, add a TubeScreamer, some delay for solos and you are done.

[jgcable]

What is so difficult about dialing it in? To me the shortfall of the Vetta was always the amp modeling, the amp modeling feels very lo-fi to me.

I don't feel that way with my Kemper, just pick a Marshall, add a TubeScreamer, some delay for solos and you are done.

Remember... the Vetta came out approx. 15 years ago when modeling technology was still in its infancy. You simply can't compare a Kemper or an Axe FX to a Vetta. With the old technology... you had to really work at it to get great tones. The new stuff sounds great right out of the box. Regarding your Kemper... you mentioned just pick a Marshall and a Tubescreamer and some delay for solo's and you are done. Well... my guess is about 1% of Kemper users stop there. They deep edit. That's the whole idea of using a modeler. If all you need is a Marshall and a tubescreamer and a delay then why aren't you using the real thing? It would be just as simple. The reason I use my old vintage Vette...lol... is for all the tones I can't get with my arsenal of amplifiers. For instance... I don't own a Matchless or any Vox amps although I love their tone. My Vetta is close enough for me. Regarding the Lo-Fi sound. Sure... I agree with you. When compared to the new technology... even Line 6's new technology... the Vetta sounds lo-fi but.... if you don't have a Kemper or a Fractal Audio product sitting around to compare it to the Vetta is just fine.

[jgcable]

And to follow up on my response... for what I use my Vetta for and the fact that you can pick one up for around $400 used... that's a pretty good deal. I have never heard a modeling amp of any kind that sounds as good as the real thing in any of the clubs that I play at so although Kemper and Fractal and Eleven are all awesome companies... there are no local players in my area that use them. When you see guitar players in Connecticut and New York 99% of the time they are playing traditional tube amps.. either Marshall, Mesa, VHT, Engl, Crate, Fender, Budda, Randall, etc..., and the occasional Rivera player like me. The only rack systems seen onstage are usually the bass players rigs. That doesn't mean anything regarding which is better. I am just stating the facts and nothing but the facts. I would be the perfect candidate for a Kemper or a Fractal Audio product. I love to tweak and I primarily play live. I just haven't bitten the bullet... yet.....

[markD]

John, I have been using the Vox models in my Line 6 gear so much lately, I just went and bought a Vox, lol. I use modelers to help me find amps and tones I dig, then I go purchase the real deal. Years ago I would have NEVER thought I'd be into low gain amps like old Fenders and Voxes, but that's what I am playing these days - along with telecasters, jaguars and jazzmasters. I have almost sworn off humbuckers completely.

While I LOVE modeling, I am a one amp with a pedalboard live kind of guy. Not too different from you except I don't shred in an arena rock band - I am more of the Schenker in UFO type of guy.

While I still have 3 Riveras, they mostly sit these days in lieu of Marshall, Fender, or the Vox amp - depending on the gig. I am currently a free-lancer who isn't tied to one band, this weekend it is my instrumental smooth jazz trio doing a cool gig for a local radio station. This weekend's gig is a PRS guitar into my pedalboard into the 65 Bassman rig. It'll pretty much be all neck pick-up, compression, medium gain, and delay, lol....

[jgcable]

I am giving the Vetta a go at band rehearsal tonight. I usually don't like to drag a heavy amp out to rehearsal because the space is difficult to get to but I am too curious to see how it stacks up live. Full report tomorrow. Stay tuned.

[jgcable]

I am giving the Vetta a go at band rehearsal tonight. I usually don't like to drag a heavy amp out to rehearsal because the space is difficult to get to but I am too curious to see how it stacks up live. Full report tomorrow. Stay tuned.

EDIT..... here are my observations. Sonically.. it sounded fine. No issues at all. Feel wise... I didn't care for it for soloing. There is little to no connection between my fingers and the sound coming out of the speakers. That disconnect just doesn't feel good. It sounds good.. it just doesn't feel good. When the band stops playing... it feels great. The band starts up... the connection is lost.
Hard to explain. This amp is staying home where it belongs. It sounds absolutely fantastic at home. I am going to stick with my trusty Marshall VS265 2 x 12 solid state combo for band rehearsal. It sounds great and I can feel it.

[jgcable]

EDIT..... here are my observations. Sonically.. it sounded fine. No issues at all. Feel wise... I didn't care for it for soloing. There is little to no connection between my fingers and the sound coming out of the speakers. That disconnect just doesn't feel good. It sounds good.. it just doesn't feel good. When the band stops playing... it feels great. The band starts up... the connection is lost.
Hard to explain. This amp is staying home where it belongs. It sounds absolutely fantastic at home. I am going to stick with my trusty Marshall VS265 2 x 12 solid state combo for band rehearsal. It sounds great and I can feel it.

I know... I keep updating my own responses! lol... anyway.... I mentioned that at the last band rehearsal it just didn't feel good. Well.. there was a mechanical reason for that! The master volume control had a cold solder joint so it was fading in and out almost like somebody was gradually turning down the volume. Since the Vetta is so incredibly easy (it really is) to work on I took it apart, reflowed all 3 solder joints and had it back together and running great literally in 10 minutes. Line 6 really did an amazing job engineering this amp. Not only does it sound great but its almost modular in design and comes apart in minutes. Very well made inside. Anyway... that was the problem. The amp is coming to band rehearsal tonight. Report tomorrow if anybody cares.

[Ripley7t]

Tweakers dream is what I call these. Mine was great, but too much work for me to dial in what I wanted. That plus all the other Armen mods? etc.

I finally just bought a Mark V and sold the Vetta. Mark is gone now too, lol.

[jgcable]

I am absolutely intent on using my Vetta combo live with my 80's arena rock metal band at our next show on Saturday. I a/b'd it against all my other high gain amps and sure... its not as clear or "present" as my Rivera or my Metaltronix or my Marshalls but... it still sounds darned good.
My thoughts are this....
When I was in a power trio (guitar, bass, drums) I had to have a lot of presence live so I used big tube amps, 1/2 stacks and all kinds of effect processing to spread my signal and tone out and fill up the room. The band I have been in for the last 8 months is a 6pc. 2 guitars, keyboards, lead singer, bass, drums. I don't have to fill up nearly as much sonic space but I still need different effects for different songs. I am trying to convince myself that the Vetta is the answer. Instead of dragging heads, cabs, floor processors, 4 cable methods etc... to the gigs it would be great to roll the Vetta 2 x 12 into the club, plug in my one cable to the longboard, plug in my wireless on top of the amp and I am ready to go. The only effect I am missing is an intelligent harmonizer. Believe it or not.. the Vetta doesn't have one. I could always put one in the loop of the Vetta but for the 2 songs I need it in I am not sure its actually necessary live. I can always use the pitch shifter and fake it. Every time I say I am going to use the Vetta live I chicken out and go with one of my tube amps. I need to bite the bullet this time.

[markD]

John, with a band the has that much musical coverage, have you ever considered the opposite approach and going drier with your sound? I recently joined a country band with a similar configuration - main vocalist/occasional acoustic player, main acoustic player, piano/keyboardist/occasional electric guitar, me on lead guitar, bass, drums, female back up vocalist/tambourine player. Holy hell - it is bit of a nightmare, lol!!

Anyway, even with it not being the same genre as what you are doing, I found that in order to really cut through with the appropriate sound having less was more. I still have the uni-vibe, my slap back delay, and my OD pedal - but that's it. Even with the slap-back, the "mix" on my MXR Carbon Copy is VERY low, because to have my tone sound good on its own the sound of the band suffered - I got buried more in the mix and it was harder for the sound guy to find a good place for me. I was running a Fender tube reverb unit (it sounds cool!!!) in front of my rig. Again, buy itself it was amazing. In the mix, it sucked. Even with my OD, I had to ONLY add what I needed otherwise I would blend into the keyboard/piano too much and I would get lost in the mix.

Even my guitar choices had to be carefully thought out. I have 22 guitars, and the instruments I would have chosen based on the genre did always "work". One wuld think a tele would be a shoo-in, right? Not in this case. I am actually kind of bummed about it too, because I am pretty much a tele convert these days - it is my guitar of choice. Turns out that my best choice is a PRS 245 with me working the volume and tone controls for various tones.

This isn't my first time in a country band over the last few years, but it IS the first time I have had to TOTALLY reinvent my approach due to the sheer number of players and sonic density the band is creating. Here's my rig rundown for this gig:

* 1965 Fender Bassman w/ Fender 2x12 cab (loaded with original Utah speakers)
* PRS 245 guitar
* EBMM StingRay guitar
* MXR Custom Bad-ass OD
* MXR Uni-Vibe
* MXR Dyna Comp
* MXR Carbon Copy
* VOX wah

The only effect that is ALWAYS on is the Dyna Comp. The rest come and go. I sit nicely in the mix now. Now all the band needs to do is getting the acoustic guitarists to use alternate tunings and/or capos to spread the chord intervals to make the music spread more....

[jgcable]

John, with a band the has that much musical coverage, have you ever considered the opposite approach and going drier with your sound? I recently joined a country band with a similar configuration - main vocalist/occasional acoustic player, main acoustic player, piano/keyboardist/occasional electric guitar, me on lead guitar, bass, drums, female back up vocalist/tambourine player. Holy hell - it is bit of a nightmare, lol!!

Anyway, even with it not being the same genre as what you are doing, I found that in order to really cut through with the appropriate sound having less was more. I still have the uni-vibe, my slap back delay, and my OD pedal - but that's it. Even with the slap-back, the "mix" on my MXR Carbon Copy is VERY low, because to have my tone sound good on its own the sound of the band suffered - I got buried more in the mix and it was harder for the sound guy to find a good place for me. I was running a Fender tube reverb unit (it sounds cool!!!) in front of my rig. Again, buy itself it was amazing. In the mix, it sucked. Even with my OD, I had to ONLY add what I needed otherwise I would blend into the keyboard/piano too much and I would get lost in the mix.

Even my guitar choices had to be carefully thought out. I have 22 guitars, and the instruments I would have chosen based on the genre did always "work". One wuld think a tele would be a shoo-in, right? Not in this case. I am actually kind of bummed about it too, because I am pretty much a tele convert these days - it is my guitar of choice. Turns out that my best choice is a PRS 245 with me working the volume and tone controls for various tones.

This isn't my first time in a country band over the last few years, but it IS the first time I have had to TOTALLY reinvent my approach due to the sheer number of players and sonic density the band is creating. Here's my rig rundown for this gig:

* 1965 Fender Bassman w/ Fender 2x12 cab (loaded with original Utah speakers)
* PRS 245 guitar
* EBMM StingRay guitar
* MXR Custom Bad-ass OD
* MXR Uni-Vibe
* MXR Dyna Comp
* MXR Carbon Copy
* VOX wah

The only effect that is ALWAYS on is the Dyna Comp. The rest come and go. I sit nicely in the mix now. Now all the band needs to do is getting the acoustic guitarists to use alternate tunings and/or capos to spread the chord intervals to make the music spread more....

Mark, I agree with you and I DESPERATELY want to go dry with just a boost for solo and a wah for a few songs. I have a JTM45 and some various tube screamers that are perfect for that 80's JCM800 high gain tone. I could also use my Rivera Suprema but....here are the problems specifically....

Welcome to the Jungle.... I need a heavy slap back delay with multiple repeats for the intro.
Round and Round and Rock You Like a Hurricane.... I need an intelligent harmonizer
Foolin...... I need a chorus, delay and reverb for the clean parts.
Photograph..... I need a chorus
No More Tears.... I need a Univibe and a delay.
Aint Talkin About Love.... I need a Flanger, delay and reverb
Livin on a Prayer.... I need a talk box

I am probably forgetting some effects for other songs but those are the ones that are most important. Now.. with that said... the only effects I use live all the time is a very light splash of reverb and the solo boost (which is either a straight up volume pedal or an EQ boost). I only use the effects above for those specific parts in the songs. I have a wah but I only use it for the Man in the Box solo I believe. Basically, our set up live between the 2 guitar players is my other guitar player who plays 10% of the solo's plays totally dry. Not even reverb. He has a LPB1 in the loop of his JMP1 for solo boost. That's it. We are set up like GNR. Slash has a very wet mix (way "wetter" than most people think live) and Duff is pretty much dry. Actually... I think many guitar players would be VERY surprised to know just how many effects high gain hard rock and metal players use live. Now.... the exception to that is the death metal players. Most of the ones I know use high gain amps and absolutely no effects. The 80's metal type players have racks and racks and giant floor boards full of effects.

[markD]

Gotcha. Since you aren't afraid of modeling, have you thought about going with a Line 6 Helix or an AXE-8? That might be your solution. Get into that new world modeling with the FRFR cab to hear yourself....you seem to want to keep the tones as authentic as possible, with one of those you could have KILLER models with your effect parameters attached, then control all of it with your feet....

When I went BACK to a rack a couple of years back (it was brief, lol) I added a GCX/Ground Control loop-switcher. It enabled me to control everything through MIDI. That's when my eyes really opened to the concept of HOW bending end the new modeling (even including the Line 6 HD500 stuff) could be compared to the older stuff (which I still have no problem using). You have a lot of stuff you could move and you would end up making a very small out of pocket investment into gear that would probably satisfy your tonal needs - along with being easier to transport.

Just an idea....