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silar
08-18-2012, 10:55 AM
Last night, I decided to swap to heavier gauge strings 11's from the 10's I normally use and tune the guitar to drop C. I've got a few songs that I wrote in drop C and haven't played them in a long time. The issue that I have is that the screw hole in the base plate that holds the low E (or C in this case) string bridge piece locked down for intonation is stripped. Now the note at the 12th fret is sharp and I can't get the bridge piece to move back to correct it.

My question is... Is there a way to fix this, or will a FR Special fit with no mods? I thought about finding a JT-580LP and routing out the angles in the body to compensate, but wasn't sure if any of the inside routing was different.

I'd rather not go with a JT-590, and would much rather do the FR Special, especially if it is a direct replacement without any mods to the body. I am fully aware of the issues that the JT-500 has (crappy base plate metal)...

Any suggestions?

Just edited this to note that I should have posted this in the Tech section. If anyone wants to move it, be my guest. I don't have a way to do it...

84sups
08-18-2012, 02:59 PM
If you don't use the trem a lot the Floyd rose special will work but if will touch te back of the trem route if you pull backing the bar. If you have a steady hand you can extend the back route to fit.

silar
08-18-2012, 03:37 PM
If you don't use the trem a lot the Floyd rose special will work but if will touch te back of the trem route if you pull backing the bar. If you have a steady hand you can extend the back route to fit.

I just wanted to make sure. I really don't mind routing the body a little. I was a bit worried it would be offset, or the pivots wouldn't line up properly..

DonP
08-18-2012, 04:09 PM
Someone on the board was offering to repair bridges. Can remember who - it's been a while.

silar
08-18-2012, 04:25 PM
Someone on the board was offering to repair bridges. Can remember who - it's been a while.

Thanks Don, but after thinking about it, I'd rather replace it with something a little better, to avoid this problem in the future on the other saddles..

Carbuff
08-18-2012, 06:12 PM
A schaller floyd (jt590) is a direct swap. Its what the jt500 is a copy of.

silar
08-18-2012, 06:57 PM
A schaller floyd (jt590) is a direct swap. Its what the jt500 is a copy of.

The only issue with that is the base plate is pretty much made of the same metal according to audiozone.dk (http://audiozone.dk/index-filer/TremoloInfoProject.htm). Wasn't the JT500 before the JT580 and JT590? I think I'll just go with the Floyd Rose special and route out the end to accommodate the longer locking screws..

tomanyjacksons
08-18-2012, 07:05 PM
I'm gonna get a HD Floyd copy from guitarfetish for a project I'm getting the parts lined up for now. They look allright for the price, but I will say I'm not afraid of using a router to make one fit. Thinking about using some of their pickups and whatever else I need. On a side thought how many projects are too many? LOL 3 of my own and 2 for a friend of mine.

silar
08-18-2012, 07:16 PM
I'm gonna get a HD Floyd copy from guitarfetish for a project I'm getting the parts lined up for now. They look allright for the price, but I will say I'm not afraid of using a router to make one fit. Thinking about using some of their pickups and whatever else I need. On a side thought how many projects are too many? LOL 3 of my own and 2 for a friend of mine.

You sound like me! I've got 2 guitar projects for a friend.. One is a Ibanez RG550 from the 90's and the other is an American strat. He tried carving out the cavities to accommodate active electronics/batteries with a hammer and flathead screwdriver on both!:doh: You don't even want to see what they look like!

I've got the DX10D that I'm modifying the top and headstock with bubinga burl, and now this one where I'm going to have to route out the trem cavity for a new floyd!

I've used guitarfetish in the past for a few things, and so far, I like them. Got some knobs, metal pickup rings, Pickguard for my Jazz bass, etc...

84sups
08-18-2012, 08:49 PM
The Jt-590 is a Schaller made trem and is a lot better. The newer Schallers have hardened inserts for the intonation screws. It's a solid trem and you can find them for the same price as the Floyd Special. I have one on my Jackson parts mutt. It looks a little ratty but works perfectly.

silar
08-18-2012, 09:30 PM
The Jt-590 is a Schaller made trem and is a lot better. The newer Schallers have hardened inserts for the intonation screws. It's a solid trem and you can find them for the same price as the Floyd Special. I have one on my Jackson parts mutt. It looks a little ratty but works perfectly.

Thanks 84, but not to sound like an arse, and I may be wrong, but the JT-590's all were made with Zinc base plates, or is the article on Audiozone.dk wrong? That's why they mention the 'Schaller Made' Floyd Rose II as a replacement for the JT-590, because the FR II had the hardened inserts. Like I said.. I could be wrong, and whether or not I am, I'd be a bit hesitant to buy a JT-590 not knowing whether or not it had hardened inserts, plus, for some reason or another, I've never been a fan of the big fat string retainer bolts that go in the back of the saddles...

The newer Schaller 'Tremolo' units that are similar to the JT-590 are around $150 - $190 new shipped (Here is an example (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Schaller-Floyd-Rose-Locking-Tremolo-GOLD-/360435208904?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item53eb9cd2c8)), where I can get a Floyd Rose Special for around $50 shipped (example (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-FLOYD-ROSE-SPECIAL-BLACK-LOCKING-GUITAR-BRIDGE-AND-PARTS-/221098554714?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item337a80355a))...

tomanyjacksons
08-19-2012, 12:52 AM
I would go for a FR Special myself but I don't like doing the Ebay thing at all. I think the forum should put in a new deal that is solely for projects whether it's a pedal, amp, guitar or anything else forum related. That would be cool imo.

RobRR
08-19-2012, 09:37 AM
Schaller JT590's do NOT have zinc baseplates. And no a Floyd Special will not fit into a 500/590 rout, so theyre out of the question. The only trems that will fit are a Schaller or another 500.

silar
08-19-2012, 09:51 AM
Schaller JT590's do NOT have zinc baseplates. And no a Floyd Special will not fit into a 500/590 rout, so theyre out of the question. The only trems that will fit are a Schaller or another 500.


Then why does audiozone.dk say this about them.. "The baseplate of the JT-590 pictured is made of zinc, which is soft and easier/cheaper to produce, the knife edges are inserts of supposedly hardened steel and it has no steel threaded inserts for the saddle bolts (later models came with threaded inserts). Because of that, it's easier to strip the threads of the intonation holes in the baseplate - having threads in zinc is simply just a bad idea. Furthermore, the knife edges do not last as long as the the original Floyd. Far from. I know this for a fact, as I have used both types for well over 20 years. The original Floyd baseplate is made of high quality hardened steel, with the knife edges being part of the baseplate itself. It can really take some abuse and the knife edges just last longer. Furthermore, I think the original Floyd sounds better too. No kidding. Especially when using the old studs that screw directly into the wooden body."

Maybe I'm missing something....:dunno: Like I said earlier, finding a newer one that has the inserts would be luck of the draw, and I'd rather not waste money on something not really knowing what it is, plus I'm not a fan of the fat locking bolts...

I know the Special will not fit the route for a 500 or 590... That's why I mentioned earlier in the thread that I would route out the cavity to accommodate.

84sups
08-19-2012, 10:50 AM
The 590s get stripped out but people being gorillas with the allen keys when they tighten them down. I had a Schaller branded trem for several years and never had an issue also the knife edges are fine. If you do a search there are several members on here that bought their guitar new and their Schaller trems still work fine. There is always going to be a few people that have bad experiences.

silar
08-19-2012, 11:11 AM
The 590s get stripped out but people being gorillas with the allen keys when they tighten them down. I had a Schaller branded trem for several years and never had an issue also the knife edges are fine. If you do a search there are several members on here that bought their guitar new and their Schaller trems still work fine. There is always going to be a few people that have bad experiences.

I'm pretty gentle with mine, but apparently the previous owner wasn't. Honestly, I'm not much of a trem user, just an occasional dive or tremolo effect. I'm just a stickler for perfect tune and intonation! ;)

RobRR
08-19-2012, 04:38 PM
Well if youre so against the Schaller, one of the bet trems ever made, then by all means get the junk special and rout out the guitar... Its still gonna fit like crap. If youre so dead set on a special over a Schaller, then why even start this thread and ignore all of our advise?

silar
08-28-2012, 05:18 PM
Well if youre so against the Schaller, one of the bet trems ever made, then by all means get the junk special and rout out the guitar... Its still gonna fit like crap. If youre so dead set on a special over a Schaller, then why even start this thread and ignore all of our advise?

I'm not dead set against a Schaller Rob. Like I said in the very first post.. I just don't want a JT-590. And, I guarantee that the Schaller made JT-590 was not the 'BEST TREM EVER MADE'... I'll give you that Schaller makes good trems. Unless someone wants to spend around $170 on a new Schaller for my LOW END BEATER GUITAR PS-4 that I got for much of nothing (and we all know that's not going to happen), then I'm going to find the best bang for my buck. AND.. If you had actually read the 1st post, you would see that my question was.... Wait for it... Wait for it... 'My question is... Is there a way to fix this, or will a FR Special fit with no mods?'... and.... 'I'd rather not go with a JT-590, and would much rather do the FR Special'. The reason I even mentioned the JT-590 at the first is because I know it's a direct replacement and to alleviate anyone from trying to bring it up. So much for that idea...

The JT-590 may be a slightly better trem than the 500, but they are still designed the same whether or not they use different metal and I don't like the way they look at all. I prefer a JT-580, 580LP, or a Floyd OFR (mainly because I have used them all with no issues), and the biggest bang is going to be the special.

The thread as you make it wasn't 'Hey guys I don't know whether to get a Schaller or a FR Special!'. You'd think you designed the thing and I am assuming you have a Schaller on every guitar you own.. As far as routing goes, If I'm doing it... which I am... It's not going to fit like crap as you stated. I have a regular career outside of music, but I have also been a woodworker for 20 years and love doing Luthier work. Everyone around here comes to me from everything electronics wise to setups and mods. I think I'm pretty competent at what I do...

I'm not ignoring anyone's advice... There are just a few that really didn't read what this thread was about.

toejam
08-28-2012, 05:52 PM
Fix it? Try helicoils. http://www.jcfonline.com/threads/105982-Helicoil

silar
08-28-2012, 06:31 PM
Fix it? Try helicoils. http://www.jcfonline.com/threads/105982-Helicoil

Thanks ToeJam!:) Funny it's about a Schaller trem! :rotf:
I know that's not what ya meant though! ;)

I thought about the helicoils when I ran across this thread a few days back http://www.jcfonline.com/threads/61338-Stripped-Schaller-Floyd-on-sl2!! (ironically.. about a Schaller also), but I'm just going to replace it. Other than the JT-6, the 500 or 590 design to me is just not doing it for me. I've never liked the textured baseplate or the big fat locking bolts, plus, now I feel I have to prove myself and my router skills! ;)

toejam
08-28-2012, 06:43 PM
No problem. Those old Schallers did have a tendency to strip the saddle screws, but I believe Schaller fixed that problem some years back, so brand new ones will be fine. If that type of trem is not your thing, then either go for an OFR or Gotoh.

84sups
08-28-2012, 07:33 PM
Why not go to the local Ace hardware and get a long bolt and put a nut on the bottom. It would be loads cheaper and no one would be the wiser.

silar
08-31-2012, 10:51 AM
Why not go to the local Ace hardware and get a long bolt and put a nut on the bottom. It would be loads cheaper and no one would be the wiser.

I thought about that too, but I'm weird when it comes to my guitars. That's a good temporary fix though If I can find a nut thin enough to fit under the base plate without causing it to hit the trem cavity.

I went ahead and ordered a black Floyd Rose special. Of course I'll have to route the end of the cavity for it, but that's no problem at all. Everything electronic has already been changed out on the PS-4 to CTS 500k pots, new wiring, switchcraft jack, and CRL 5 way switch. After this trem upgrade, I'll just need some good Pups to throw in there and I'll have one hell of a player (it's already a good player, but the Jackson Pickups in it are a little less to be desired)...

decadentdave
08-31-2012, 03:33 PM
Get a Floyd and be done with it.

silar
08-31-2012, 03:40 PM
Get a Floyd and be done with it.

Uhh.. I did.. Sort of.. :D

silar
09-08-2012, 07:21 PM
Well, I got my floyd rose special.. Gonna be doing some mods to the PS-4, including routing the trem cavity to make sure the FRS fits... When I got the guitar, it had the original Jackson pickups. I just ordered two Hexbuckers (neck & bridge) to replace the originals. Figured for around $35 bucks for the set, If I don't like them, I can always switch them out since I'm not out a lot of cash, and if they are microphonic, I have a potting setup. They are supposed to be similar to the JB in sound and the bridge is around 16kohms. While I'm at it, I bought some ebony stain and will be staining the fretboard.

Fun Fun Fun! I'll be posting pics of the progress!

straycat
09-08-2012, 09:18 PM
Go for it I love to mod guitars if I don't have lots of cash in them.

silar
09-09-2012, 10:38 AM
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/638814C5-334E-4C13-8524-08A5E2593978-31183-0000181C0B7C5F6A.jpg
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/5AA3FD9F-A984-4FD8-95FB-D1BCAF3D2AD8-31183-0000181C050F2620.jpg

Here's the guitar with the JT-500
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/9615B20F-98FA-4B1E-AEC7-E92430040802-31183-0000181B7B026A58.jpg

Here's the guitar with the Floyd Rose Special. Notice the lock bolts hitting the body.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/84E2A058-5AC5-4300-98D5-4CEFACDE8000-31183-0000181B81F51D8F.jpg
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/75A9505F-EC4B-4760-871A-EC0FE93D67DB-31183-0000181B48F62A4E.jpg

Getting ready to route the back of the trem cavity for the Floyd Rose Special. I wrapped the guitar in saran wrap to do 2 things. One is to protect the guitar when I route a piece of wood to create a template of the existing trem route - Keep it from getting scratched. The other reason is to allow the wood to grip on the body to keep the wood from moving when I route.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/9147EBAC-52FF-40ED-90CA-D226BD819C01-31183-0000181BAC6F1DE5.jpg

Went down to Hobby Lobby and picked up some adhesive backed thin black foam sheets. This stuff looks exactly like what is in the trem cavity. And just $.89 a 9"x12" sheet!
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/84FDF32F-9038-48A5-AA2B-253C86F21CBF-31183-0000181DFE819865.jpg

Now time to play!

silar
09-09-2012, 07:00 PM
Well..

Got the trem route done to accommodate the Floyd Rose Special... Worked out pretty good. I made a rear route template of the existing trem route to use as a guide when I extended it.

Here's the guide made out of poplar. More just a routing template I made from the original trem route. I'll keep this on hand If I need to do this again.. ;)
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/0ACE911E-9042-4690-931A-5249DCC4F0CE-31332-0000183E3AF4F116.jpg

Here's the trem cavity routed out to accept the Floyd Rose Special.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/281541A4-CF38-4B4D-97D3-50EA03B71623-31332-0000183E41641070.jpg

Here's the cavity with the thin self adhesive foam cut to fit and applied...
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/EAEF615A-3871-4077-9AFE-36A9E7077029-31332-0000183E476CBE45.jpg




And here's the trem cavity with the Floyd Rose special. Nice fit if I need to move any of the blocks back to the last intonation screw hole.
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/9FF9A339-BF65-4F56-82F5-C2121BBA7157-31332-00001841344B58AC.jpg
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/1E3A8B30-5C51-4A7C-BC15-1590E12510D6-31332-000018413AF5E84D.jpg

And just because I can be a smart-ass about it on this thread... MAN RobRR, THAT SURE FITS LIKE CRAP... DOESN'T IT? :doh::rotf:

Now on to the ebonizing of the fretboard and waiting for the pickups to arrive! ;)

Dreamland_Rebel
09-10-2012, 03:42 PM
If you want I can fix your stripped base plate for $20. I have the helicoil kit and plenty of inserts. Just pm me if you are interested.

silar
09-10-2012, 04:57 PM
If you want I can fix your stripped base plate for $20. I have the helicoil kit and plenty of inserts. Just pm me if you are interested.

Thanks Dreamland, but that trem was pretty beat anyways by the past PO. I'll probably just put it up in case I run into another one so I'll have some spare parts. I appreciate it though!

silar
09-10-2012, 05:01 PM
Done with the fretboard staining...

Before...
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/07DBF072-1809-425F-82E6-8861436D0DA4-31735-0000188486619EDC.jpg

After... Man does that look so much better! :Headbang:
http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p500/silaradams/PS-4/7F935170-BDC6-4398-A7CF-80F0402ACCC1-31735-000018848D1E17C1.jpg

RobRR
09-10-2012, 06:47 PM
Still has huge gaps and doesnt look right, but what ever floats your boat. After all, its only a Performer... no loss if it got ruined, but at least your routing work looks decent.

silar
09-10-2012, 08:29 PM
Still has huge gaps and doesnt look right, but what ever floats your boat. After all, its only a Performer... no loss if it got ruined, but at least your routing work looks decent.

I guess I should just be happy with what I can get! ;)