Fast Alternate Picking

[JDA]

Re: Fast Alternate Picking

Thanks Robo & LesPaul for the info.

I think you both made good points on how to improve ones speed and keeping it clean. Actually some of the stuff I'm already doing.

Robo,
It's not really a sync problem, but more of not being clean with my right hand picking technique jumping over the B string. What happens is when I'm picking fast and hit the high E with an upstroke the momentum from that upstroke is hitting the open B string instead of missing the B string before bing able to play the fretted D note with a downstroke.

I tried your exercises and find that the "all upstrokes" exercise is my weakest technique from the 4 examples that you mentioned. It's funny because that is where I'm having the problem on the upstroke of the high E and clearing the B string cleanly.

I also notice that I'm much slower with the all upstrokes vs. the all downstrokes by quite a bit and my picking hand fatigues much quicker. I believe you helped me find my weak spot in my technique and I plan to work on my upstrokes to help strengthen my right hand technique.

I'm going to take both yours and LesPauls advice on this and see if it brings me up to speed cleanly.

Thanks to both of you and God Bless the Marines.

[etaeniura]

Re: Fast Alternate Picking

It sounds like you just haven't built up the dexterity required to control the upstroke. As you mentioned, doing all upstrokes was your weakest exercise, and thet you have so much extra movement in your upstroke, you are overshooting the mark. Practicing licks with all upstrokes should really improve that, but don't forget to practice then with alt/economy picking to "tie it all together". My first guitar instructor was real tough on me about unecessary movement in your picking technique. Just keep practicing and you will get it eventually.

[JDA]

Re: Fast Alternate Picking

Thanks for the encouragement etaeniura. You describe my problem to the tee.

I'm been playing for years, but more of a blues style and even though I've worked on some shred stuff I never obtained the speed I wanted.

I figure after all these years I'd revisit my technique and find out why. I believe with the help of others here that my problem has been with not having fully developed my upstrokes to their full potential.

You mention another good point about avoiding the excessive pick movement. I do need to focus on my economy of motion with the pick.

I've been without an electric guitar for the last 6 months and been using my acousic to practice on. It's not the best guitar for this stuff, but it might payoff with improving my dexterity. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I've been wanting to pick up a shred style guitar and probably will go with a DK1.

I broke out the metronome and practicing along with that to gauge my progress. Today I was able to play the lick cleanly at 160 bpm using eigth note triplets. That's still slow compared to Paul Gilbert, but better than the 138 bpm I had been playing it at last week.

I've also been messing around with different picks and I seem to have the best luck with the Dunlop Jazz III, though I'm still experimenting.

I've been really motivated lately with the practicing and determined to get this lick down.

Thanks!

[etaeniura]

Re: Fast Alternate Picking

If you ever watch the REALLY fast guitar players, you will notice that there is very little motion in their picking hand, and I noticed that Michael angelo also changes his hand position when he plays the super fast stuff. I have alos been playing a long time, and started out playing blues stuff and rock. I admit I am a really bad guitar player, but I have recently decided to try and really learn to play some metal stuff and learn to play lead. Good luck to you!

[JDA]

Re: Fast Alternate Picking

I've been watching my instructionals from Gilbert, Angelo, and Petrucci and they all are amazing players. I've been going nuts breaking down their right hand technique and trying to fine turn my right hand.

I'm pretty happy finding my weak points in my picking technique, because now I know what to focus on to fix the problem.

Good luck with your playing too. I think we will get there if we keep after it.

Take care!

[mt]

Re: Fast Alternate Picking

speaking from my persoanl experience of learning to shred.

the pick needs to be HARD and hardly budges. I use the dunlop stubby, its GREAT. if ur pick flops around it'll be hard to shred with.

practicing shredding on an acoustic is quite pointless. if ur doing it properly on an acousitic, the volume will be very low, and u'd tend to pick harder and harder to get better sounding notes... and then u don't learn the 'light' touch of the pick.

after u can shred pretty well u CAN shred on acoustics and have a nice volume by picking harder. but that's only after u can shred pretty well on the electric (for me at least). the big realization for me in shredding is the very LIGHT touch the pick excerts on the strings.

also. its important to practice with distortion too... so u'd learn how to properly mute the strings and how to avoid unwanted noise..

and.. economy picking is GREAT. its much easier when ur doing multiple strings, 3 notes per string. romeo, malmsteen, and many other shredders use both economy and alternate picking.

hope this will help u a bit.

edit:
btw,, u should also learn to RELAX both hands. (simply impossible on a dreadnought)... relaxation is the key to speed imo... I used to hold the pick so tightly that joints in my thumb hurt cuz I Was digging into the strings so hard, and holding the pick so hard that all the opposing force from the string was attacking my joints..

so get an electric.. relax both hands during playing..., and imo it is best to have the picking motion come from ur wrist... but there ARE exceptions... look at rusty cooley. he sometimes does it off his wrist, but also does ultra fast runs by a really tense looking forearm!... I am still analyzing his technique and learning from it.

[ March 15, 2004, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: mt ]

[JDA]

Re: Fast Alternate Picking

Thanks for the tips guys.

I've been improving quite a bit with my picking with some of the tips postered. I did finally buy an electric and should have it here in a couple of days.

I think using a metronome and being consistent has been a big help and practicing upstrokes have really helped.

I do need to work on my left hand legatto playing, but always preferred more of a Steve Morse style of picking every note. I want to be able to do both fluently.

Lots of work ahead. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Regards, JD...

[countandduke]

Re: Fast Alternate Picking

My advice would be to go to the source of speed.....the late and Great Shawn Lane. He has two videos out and one book. He was the BEST of the best!! Lots of his speed was from economy of picking but also motion. Why pick EVERY SINGLE NOTE? Sounds TOO mechanical....try and get into pull offs and hammer ons when you can, it will ease up the strain on your picking hand but will sound just as fast. I show my students something called "snaps" where you pick once on the b string hammer two notes and then pick three times on the e string. That's six notes but I am only picking 4 times. Or try picking only once per string. Allan Holdsworth is a MASTER at that and one of the fastest guitar players out there but his right hand hardly moves!!

Good luck, get a metronome and practice slowly increasing the metronome a little each week.