Music Theory 1.1

[Endrik]

There's a couple of more with the #4th or in chord's case #11th (as #4 in the same octave with a root sounds dissonant which I don't want in this case) involved.

The first one has a root, #4(#11), and 5th. In C it would be C, F#, G.
The usual voicing would be: 3rd fret on A string, 5th fret on D string, 5th fret on G string, 7th fret on B string.
Or with G in the bass open voicing: Open G string, 1st fret on B string, 2 fret high E string.

I don't know. C5add11# maybe?

The other one would be the same but with added 7th (C, F#, G, B)

The usual voicings would be: 3rd fret on A string, 5th fret on D string, 5th fret on G string, 7th fret on B string, 7th fret on high E string.
Or instead of 5th fret on G string there could be 4th fret.

It's like CMaj7add11# but there's no 3rd.

[sixx_ gunner]

Just reading thru these replies is making my head throb again!

I got a long way to understanding this stuff.

Thanks for the input and I hope to get there soon!

[Spivonious]

There's no rule saying you have to have all of the notes in the chord to name it a 7/9/11/13. For example, C-E-B, C-E-G-B, and C-G-B could all be called Cmaj7 (forgive if me if I get some chord names wrong...my university was all about roman numerals).

I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about getting the name right. Especially when playing non-functional based harmonies like exist in Jazz/Eastern music.

As I went through school the music we analyzed went from Bach to Mozart to Beethoven to a bunch of late Romantic guys, and then stopped at Bartok and Kodaly. Analyzing the chords really gave a lot of insight into the structure of the pieces up until we got the late Romantic guys. There it was painfully obvious that they were just playing what sounded good. Chopin is a great example because a lot of times the chords aren't even notated right (e.g. he wrote an A# instead of Bb when Bb is the "correct" note).

As far as Csus2add#11 vs Gmaj7sus4, that all depends on how it sounds to your ears. When I played it on the piano my ears wanted it to resolve the C down to a B, so I called it a Gmaj7sus4.

When it comes to these "jazzy" chords, it's less about the chord itself and more about how it works in the song.

Trying to fit rules derived from studying the music of Bach to 20th century jazz is a lost cause.

[Endrik]

I wouldn't bother with any of this but my problem is that when I'm playing with other people then they often ask me what I'm playing and then I have nothing else to do other than to name all the single notes and whatnot and it often takes so much time. I've learned everything by ear and I know how stuff works but I don't know how most of the things are called... I've tried to read some books but the next day I've forgotten all the names and terms for the scales and whatnot

[john.w.lawson]

Working on minor triads this week with my instructor.

I agree with Newc...my head is starting to pound just thinking about tonights lesson!

Looking forward to more help soon.

Hopefully your instructor teaches you the importance of triads. About 90% or more of music consists of them. A quick explanation of triads:

A major triad is constructed from first, third, and fifth notes of the major scale.

Minor triads require a critical change: flatting the third degree of the scale, which results in a formula of one, flatted third, and five.

The augmented triad is constructed from the first, third, and sharp fifth.

The diminished triad is constructed the same as the minor triad but the fifth is flatted.

[Spivonious]

To build on that, you can add the 7th tone to the chord as well.

Major 7th - 1-3-(5)-7, C-E-G-B
Major Dominant 7th - 1-3-(5)-b7, C-E-G-Bb
Minor 7th - 1-b3-(5)-7, C-Eb-G-B
Minor Dominant 7th - 1-b3-(5)-b7, C-Eb-G-Bb
Half Diminished 7th - 1-b3-b5-7, C-Eb-Gb-B
Full Dimished 7th - 1-b3-b5-b7, C-Eb-Gb-Bb

The 5ths are all optional in these chords.

[john.w.lawson]

can you post that circle of fiths/fourths on 1.2 ?That is very useful

Circle of fith's To hard to type a circle! C,G,D,A,E,B,Gb,Db,Ab,Eb,Bb,F.

[john.w.lawson]

Circle of fith's To hard to type a cirle! C,G,D,A,E,B,Gb,Db,Ab,Eb,Bb,F.

now start at the end and go backwards,and those will be your perfect fourths