Help improving speed and accuracy

[BenoA]

I meant to say: "sorry to hear your drummer was causing drama and had to be given the boot".

Enjoy Maiden, and keep on rocking.

You made me laugh!

...And don't worry, I'll keep rockin'!!! Can't wait for tomorrow evening, we have one serious dude that really hope will have a good chemistry with the rest of the band.

[Cliff]

So here's my latest attempt at Flight:

It's an improvement, right? Right!?

I tried switching to the neck pickup for a sweeter tone. The high notes to my ears definitely sound nicer, but I've lost some of that nice crunch on the lower ones. Oh well.

I can hear it still sounds like it's dragging in places. I'm not sure if this is down to just a poor sense of timing, or if I'm maybe still playing faster than what I'm comfortable with. I certainly haven't been emphasizing speed in my recent practice routine.

There's a bonus track at the end: me trying to playing a descending diminished run, exercise 118 from Stetina's book, though there's almost exactly the same lick in Karate Kid's solo in Crossroads. It's challenging for me cause it each group of four notes crosses two or three strings, and each involves a position shift. As you can hear, I was making a right mess of it until I remember the advice to use a light touch with my left hand. I hope you can hear towards the end that it worked and the fingers just fell into place so much easier, rather than tripping over each other.

[Iivari]

^ I don't wan't to insult you in any way, but it seems to me that some notes aren't in time, like you sometimes rush a lil bit, then you go slower, then you go back to steady tempo. Maybe it's just me. Some more exp. player should check it. Anyway, I have similar problems. Thing I did to pull my stuff together - I call it 21 day challenge.
I played each day for atleast 30 mins. 1/4 notes on 60bpm, alternate picking while doing 1-2-3-4 stuff and economy picking while playing scales. Basicly what I did was re-teaching my pinky to press strings with the tip of the finger and it paid off. Now I don't try to rush things while I'm practicing something, heck I don't even wan't to try play as fast as I can, I concentrate on note choices and phrasing more. It realy helped me to become better player. Now it's time for me to try 10 day challenge, let's see how that goes.

I hope you can use something from what I've suggested and keep rocking ! \m/ horns up !

[Cliff]

Not insulted at all. I think you're absolutely right. I've been trying exactly what you suggest (except for the economy picking bit), but I guess I'm still not there yet. Thanks for the input!

[Cliff]

Basicly what I did was re-teaching my pinky to press strings with the tip of the finger and it paid off.

Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for this! I thought my pinky was doing okay, but I thought again about what you said and gave it another try last night. I found if I played *very* slowly I could control my pinky much better, and get a smoother result. Awesome advice!

[BenoA]

Hey Cliff, don't give up and keep trying! Have you noticed that this thread is over a year now and I've learned a lot from reading it.

Rock on!!!

[Cliff]

Ha ha! I'm glad your getting some stuff out of this too - I hope a good few people are. I'm learning a lot too, but clearly not enough yet . Thanks for the encouragement, as always!

[ginsambo]

Hey Cliff, just a word on what helped me to fluently speed with my left hand, by accident by the way, was rolling notes.

And the trick (I learned, again by accident recently, I didn't look up any lessons as I haven't got the patience) is not to press hard with your left hand, otherwise by the time your right hand is picking new notes, your left is still stuck releasing the old ones. And use a relaxed right hand.

Say take something in F# natural minor:


E----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------9-10-12-10-9--------------10-12-14-12-10
B-----------------------------------------------------------9-10-12-10-9--------------------------------------------------------------14-12-10-12-14
G----------6-7-9-7-6------------7-9-11-9-7-----------------------------11-9-7-9-11---------------11-9-7-9-11
D---6-7-9------------9-7-6-7-9-------------11-9-7-9-11
A---
E---

E---12-14-16-14-12------------------14-16-17-16-14
B---------------------15-14-12-14-15------------------17-15-14-15-17-15-14
G-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------16-14-13-14-16-14-13 etc.
D---
A---
E---


I found it actually harder to roll two groups of notes on the same string so as opposed to this:

G----4-6-7-6-4-----------4-6-7-6-4------------4-6-7-6-4-----------4-6-7-6-4
D---------------7-6-4-6-7------------7-6-4-6-7-----------7-6-4-6-7------------7-6-4-6-7

Try this:

G----6-7-9-7-6-----7-6-4-6-7------6-7-9-7-6-7-6-4-6-7-6-7-9-7-6-7-6-4-6-7

Now you should be able to hammer on/pull off these phrases above as literally light speed, without any picking at all, if you need to pick, only pick the first note on the string. Also make sure when hammering back on, that each note is defined and has an equal length and volume.

Eg, its common to do this:

G----4-6-7-6-4-----------4-6-7-6-4------------------ BUT sound like this: ----4-6-7-6-4-----------------you don't want that..
D---------------7-6-4-6-7------------7-6-4-6-7-----------------------------------------------7-6-4----x-7

...Especially when using 1st-3rd-4th finger combinations! Again the trick to evenness is a light touch, don't gouge out the notes.

Another things you should be able to do at light speed (Again with hardly any if any picking at all) is simply going down scales like this:

E---11-9-8---9-8-------8
B ----------11----11-9---11-9-8-11-9-8----9-8-------8
G ------------------------------------------10-----10-8---10-8-6-10-8-6----8-6-------6
D ---------------------------------------------------------------------------10----10-8---10-8-6
A -
E -

E -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------6-5
G ----------------------------------------------------------------------------5
D -10-8-6-5-8-6-5--6-5-----5--------------------------------------------5-------------------------------3-5
A -------------------8-----8-6--8-6-4-8-6-4-3-6-4-3--4-3-----3-------3--------------------------------2-3
E -------------------------------------------------------6----6-4---6-4-3

Again in the thing above you shouldn't need your right hand much AT ALL, except maybe for the first starting notes.

Now for the right hand. Start by by picking and hammering/pulling then pick,. these exercise improve your mental right hand timing and co-ordination and for me, I found that improvising things in a similar eight note pattern really opened up the fretboard, especially to different beats and helped me improvise and execute accurate, right on the beat, snappy, stepping stone kind of runs, which are handy as opposed to triplets, groups of five, six or random bluesy stuff that generally tend to slip in and around or are kind of moulded or muddled around the beat.

E---15-12-------12
B----------15-12---15-12----15-12-------12
G---------------------------14-------14-12----14-12----14-12-------12-
D-------------------------------------------------------14-------14-12----14-12---14-12--------12------(Slide 1st finger)--------------------14
A-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------14-------14-12---14-12-10---------------12-10-------10---
E---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------12-10---12-

You can combine this string skipping pattern with going down scales as well as above again in groups of eight notes. Example.

E---15-14-12----14-12--------12-
B--------------15--------15-14----15-14-12-15-14-12----14-12-------12
G----------------------------------------------------------14-------14-12---14-12----14-12-------12
D-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------14-------14-12----14
A---
E---

Another mental timing exercise in groups of eight notes (No Bone Movies Randy Rhoads!):

E---12-15-12----12------------------------------------------12
B--------------15----15-12----12-15-12---12
G----------------------------14-----------15---15-14-12-13
D-
A-
E-

And while making stuff up based on the eight group phrase above throw in some 6 note group phrases, just to exercise and throw your brain co-ordination out of whack so you get used to the back and forth - it works trust me, its all about brain training:

E---15-12---12
B----------15---15-12---15-12---12
G--------------------------------14---14-12-14-12----12
D-----------------------------------------------------14----14-12-14-12----12-----------------------------14
A---------------------------------------------------------------------------14---14-12-14-12-10-12-10
E-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------12

The point of these exercises and anything you improvise with similar patterns, is to get you standing up and improvising at speed whilst having fun while you are doing it, whilst also refining your fretting skills, rather than just sitting there practicing. Just sticking to picked passages like you vids will kill off your mojo and the will to live. Once you have the rolling notes thing down and can hammer on clearly and equally, you'll be amazed how fluid and fast you can just make up improvised passages on the spot. Serious light speed widdly widdly and fluid inter-string changing ability with your left hand.

The picking exercises and similar improvised ones will not only open up how to fluidly skip strings with your right hand but will teach your right hand and brain discipline and timing. Once you have all this down, you'll go back to your original exercise and it will be a walk in the park honestly. But practicing it on its own just won't get you there as fast IMO.

The trick is once you know all these patterns is to bring them back into your style, that takes more time as they can sound sterile at first, but once you are down with it, its easy to improvise stuff using similar kind of patterns, skipping and intervals.

A lot comes down to timing and phrasing and how you feel it, whether in a group of 3, 4, 6 or 8 or 16 notes. Like I think that Bumblebee thing you are doing is groups of 8 notes mainly. Remember that and its easier to keep it to the beat fast.

Probably doesn't help but it helped me alot, especially the rolling notes thing and the eight note patterns.

[ginsambo]

Another tip from my experience is NOT to use the neck pup, equally only have the gain on the amp so its around 5 max. You want to feel where you are putting too much emphasis and where not enough, using the neck pup or getting too much sustain from a high gain setting will muddy your ability to hear this and ultimately rob you of a better technique. Once you have it mastered, then use the neck pup and high gain by all means, but NOT while you are learning. You have to be able to play the guitar, not it play itself if you get what I mean. In fact even unplugged without picking it should be loud with equal note volume and reasonance with very little effort.

The rolling exercise without using any picking on a low gain setting on the bridge pup will get you a good technique and allow your fingers to find the frets fast and accurately as well as being able to change strings fluidly. Try rolling scales in various positions all over the neck and then try bigger string jumps connecting rolls or bigger fretboard intervals on the same string between rolls. It might sound harsh at first, but that is where the ability of the player comes in to play it so it sounds smooth and you don't want any noises.

You play it, don't let it play you. Eddie Van Halen back in the day had hardly any gain, it was all in his fingers and his mind.


That Randy Rhoads Steal Away The Night diminished based thing at the end is good, but again I would get up to speed with those eight note descending runs using simple natural minor scales or pentatonic position descending phrases first as above. Basically that decending pattern is covered in the licks above, albeit with easier pentatonic fingerings which remain in a single position, I'd get them down first as that dimished thing not only uses this technique but it changes positions by a semitone (fret) when descending between each string. Its a bit deep end first if you get me. Also the way Randy Rhoads did it in triplets is a lot easier to first practice fingerings.

I haven't seen the book or know how many pages you skipped to get to that exercise but I'd say learning the same pattern in a single pentatonic position at light speed would be the best thing to do first.

Either way, its sounds like you are hearing the groups of eight notes so your brain is getting there.

I'II try and come up with a super easy widdly widdly rolling thing that makes more sense with the beat and phrasing and put it on here, just it quite hard, ironically enough, to slow things down and think in TAB.

Funny enough the ONLY time I sit down is to try and transcribe and communicate or make sense of what I am doing to write it down like on here, or to play classical. I never sit down and learn something, it just comes from making it whilst up jumping up and down. Its better that way I reckon as I can feel the beat against my loins and imagine groups of topless girls begging me for it in the front row! Sadly those thoughts remain in my imagination. Nwer seriously you feel the groove better standing up I reckon. Get loose rather than being all hunched up sitting down like that.

[Iivari]

Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for this! I thought my pinky was doing okay, but I thought again about what you said and gave it another try last night. I found if I played *very* slowly I could control my pinky much better, and get a smoother result. Awesome advice!

I'm realy pedantic about this kind of stuff. I was stuck with 16ths on 80 bpm (uber slow), I just couldn't get them to sound good. I watched my left hand while I was playing and voila. It's the damn pinky.

[Cliff]

Iivari - I've definitely noticed the same thing. It's better than it used to be, to the point where I thought I was getting away with it, but it's still lifting *way* higher, so I think you're right in diagnosing it as a problem in my playing, and the thing that's causing my speed to fluctuate. (Another possibility is that I slow down as I cross strings.) So with your 21 day challenge, you did nothing *but* practice this technique? Seems if I practice this, then go back to messing around in my normal fashion, I'm in danger of undoing the hard work.

Ginsambo - amazing reply, thanks a bunch. I appreciate you taking so much time to put all this down. It's going to take me a good while to digest it all. A couple of things that immediately come to mind:

"I haven't seen the book or know how many pages you skipped to get to that exercise"... yeah, you got me there. Quite a few
"Get loose rather than being all hunched up sitting down like that." - yep, as you noticed earlier with the facial expressions, I'm sure as hell not relaxed when I play. Bit too lazy to actually stand up for any length of time, though.
"Another tip from my experience is NOT to use the neck pup, equally only have the gain on the amp so its around 5 max" - got it. I've actually been playing clean the last couple of days. I need to turn up the gain every now and again to check I'm not making too much string noise, though.

When you talk about 'rolling', you mean a phrase that's a sequence of pull-offs or hammer-ons, right? I've heard the term used to describe where you 'roll' a left-hand finger from one string to another when you want to play two notes in succession on different strings but the same fret, the idea being that you successfully damp the previous note as you roll to the new one.

Question for you both: I get the light-as-love lefthand thing, but it seems to me you can play considerably lighter when picking than when doing hammer-ons/pull-offs. It seems then you need a little more force. Pull-offs with the pinky in particular seem difficult without it moving too far away from the fretboard. Thoughts?

[Twitch]

Iivari - I've definitely noticed the same thing. It's better than it used to be, to the point where I thought I was getting away with it, but it's still lifting *way* higher, so I think you're right in diagnosing it as a problem in my playing, and the thing that's causing my speed to fluctuate. (Another possibility is that I slow down as I cross strings.) So with your 21 day challenge, you did nothing *but* practice this technique? Seems if I practice this, then go back to messing around in my normal fashion, I'm in danger of undoing the hard work.

Ginsambo - amazing reply, thanks a bunch. I appreciate you taking so much time to put all this down. It's going to take me a good while to digest it all. A couple of things that immediately come to mind:

"I haven't seen the book or know how many pages you skipped to get to that exercise"... yeah, you got me there. Quite a few
"Get loose rather than being all hunched up sitting down like that." - yep, as you noticed earlier with the facial expressions, I'm sure as hell not relaxed when I play. Bit too lazy to actually stand up for any length of time, though.
"Another tip from my experience is NOT to use the neck pup, equally only have the gain on the amp so its around 5 max" - got it. I've actually been playing clean the last couple of days. I need to turn up the gain every now and again to check I'm not making too much string noise, though.

When you talk about 'rolling', you mean a phrase that's a sequence of pull-offs or hammer-ons, right? I've heard the term used to describe where you 'roll' a left-hand finger from one string to another when you want to play two notes in succession on different strings but the same fret, the idea being that you successfully damp the previous note as you roll to the new one.

Question for you both: I get the light-as-love lefthand thing, but it seems to me you can play considerably lighter when picking than when doing hammer-ons/pull-offs. It seems then you need a little more force. Pull-offs with the pinky in particular seem difficult without it moving too far away from the fretboard. Thoughts?

For your amusement, the main riff is using what you call a roll. Cant be played without rolling a finger down in a couple of places. It took me a while to make it clean, and I wrote the damn riff.
http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...=11392426&q=hi

[Iivari]

Iivari - I've definitely noticed the same thing. It's better than it used to be, to the point where I thought I was getting away with it, but it's still lifting *way* higher, so I think you're right in diagnosing it as a problem in my playing, and the thing that's causing my speed to fluctuate. (Another possibility is that I slow down as I cross strings.) So with your 21 day challenge, you did nothing *but* practice this technique? Seems if I practice this, then go back to messing around in my normal fashion, I'm in danger of undoing the hard work.

Well I did only that 21 day straight. Basicly if you do something the same way everyday for 21 day, it becomes a habbit. Basicly you're programming your own brain.

[Cliff]

That's what I thought, just wanted to double check . Man, that must take some patience! Is it just me, or did you find keeping the pinky closer *way* harder when stretching?

Hey Twitch, very cool. That style of rolling is another technique on my 'must master some day list', along with other favourites like, 'learn to play in time' and 'learn to bend notes to the correct pitch'...

[Twitch]

That's what I thought, just wanted to double check . Man, that must take some patience! Is it just me, or did you find keeping the pinky closer *way* harder when stretching?

Hey Twitch, very cool. That style of rolling is another technique on my 'must master some day list', along with other favourites like, 'learn to play in time' and 'learn to bend notes to the correct pitch'...

It came with necessity for me. I wrote a riff that coudnt be played with traditional technique. Had to find a way to play it smooth. It just kind of happened. I figured I was just cheating, guess its a legit technique.