Buying a Car With No Title

[CharvelRocker]

Here is the deal; I am looking at a car. Make and model is not important It's apparently been sitting quite awhile and could use some TLC (new paint, could use some works on the brakes, engine tuning, etc), but it runs and is only $350 (plus I would need to pay to have it towed... bit more on that). Now what is the catch? The owner has no title. They claimed they have owned it for 15 years but the place it is from is long since out of business. My concern is less getting a title for this thing than there being anyway that even if they had some kind of proof of ownership, what scams could I get trapped in? I was thinking a signed bill of sale that declares it legally theres and is now legally mine signed by us both, but I am not sure how that would work or if it would have legal weight should something hit the fan legally. Also, there is the fact it was refinished and the paint is peeling, which normally would send up a bit of a red flag, but it appears from the pictures it was a professional job, and if they can get me a receipt for that I'm not too concerned as long as it wasn't done two weeks ago. I was not expecting to hear from the person, much less with pictures, and they seem genuine (not to mention they type in full english!). I figure if they show me some documents proving they likely own it, I will give them a call. If anyone less than a 40 year old picks up, I'll know to run away.

Also, it apparently has a pro refinish, I mean in the spots it's peeled away, you see just bare metal, so it was likely not a rushed finish hiding job.

[RR_YJMFAN]

If I'm not mistaken ( and I might be), in the state of TN, the current owner will have to file for a lost title. He can't really sell it on a bill of sale unless it's for parts. Your state may be different tho.

[CharvelRocker]

Possibly, I'm in Pennsylvania. If it's only for parts that may not bother me, as I would probably just build it into a club/track car, which would mean the chances of it staying street legal are low anyway.

EDIT: I also asked for anything that could prove they own it, such as proof of payments paid on it, taxs paid on it, or old shop bills with their name on it as owner of the car.

[dg]

You need to find out from the PA DMV if you can even get a valid registration for it without a title. There must be some way for them to search the VIN and help out in the case of a lost title, but I'd want the seller to take care of that first so there is some type of title to do a legit transfer. If he's unwilling to do that, that would be a big red flag for me.

[CharvelRocker]

They don't really have an documentation of working on it as they did it themselves, and it seems they bought it with cash out of pocket as they didn't mention having any payment information. Apparently the title was signed over to the owner but lost before it was put in their name (does that even make sense?). The deal smells just a hair odd now, so even though after 15 years there is likely not a lien on the title, my other concern is it's stolen. They can do a bill of sale, but I doubt that has weight here in PA without a title. So given the odd situation, I'm inclined to stay away, especially as by the time I tow it I would have close to $600 wrapped up in the deal before the car can go further than around the block. Not sure a 1980 Camaro with a 305 V8 fitted in is quite worth that hassle... to make matters worse, it is a 1980, which makes the VIN is nigh useless.

[Cleveland Metal]

I once bought a car to use for a drag project, it sat and languished and I forgot to change the title over. Eventually, we were just gonna title it to the shop I worked at as they were sponsoring it anyways.

The owner washed and destroyed said title after I gave it to him. Had to find the people that sold the body to me. and then I had to have the people send a request for them to get a title search, and file for a new title. THEN we transferred it to my shop.

I would not buy it without them hooking you up a title. it's not hard, they just have to call and send a letter.

[Cleveland Metal]

in another person's name? Could happen. That was sorta what I had with my shop. We just knew each other.

You need to find that previous owner and get him to apply for a replacement title. OR... You can talk to the BMV and see if it has been like forever since the car has been registered, I believe (in Ohio) you can file for title, they will try to contact last registered owner and ask him to sign it off, if they can't find him, you can file to get the title in your name.

They should either do this, or let you have all info (VIN etc) and try to get it done yourself, paying them for the car contingent on you actually getting the title.

[broken_fusion]

Could be stolen. If the owner is legit he can apply for a replacement title or you can look into getting an abandon title. Its a lot of legwork though.

[OnlineStageGear]

http://www.dot3.state.pa.us/pdotform...rms/mv-38o.pdf

[CharvelRocker]

http://www.dot3.state.pa.us/pdotform...rms/mv-38o.pdf

The only confusing about form MV-38O was who was to fill it out. I guess I'll need to call PENNDOT (which is always an experience in of itself)

EDIT: I assume the current owner anyway.

[Cleveland Metal]

yeah, I'd say from the looks of it, that form is for the person who the car is titled to isn't it?

He's MIA right?

[CharvelRocker]

yeah, I'd say from the looks of it, that form is for the person who the car is titled to isn't it?

He's MIA right?

Seems to be the case... which is why I'm nervous about it. Less so about titling it for the road, but just having some kind of fall back if I buy it and the cops come to the door wondering why I have stolen car. and not one that involves running and praying to god it doesn't fly apart :ROTF:

[Cleveland Metal]

You need to find that previous owner and get him to apply for a replacement title. OR... You can talk to the BMV and see if it has been like forever since the car has been registered, I believe (in Ohio) you can file for title, they will try to contact last registered owner and ask him to sign it off, if they can't find him, you can file to get the title in your name.

They should either do this, or let you have all info (VIN etc) and try to get it done yourself, paying them for the car contingent on you actually getting the title.

This is what I'd be doing.

[Spivonious]

All the owner has to do is contact the DMV and ask for another copy of the title. It costs about $50 IIRC.

If he won't do that, then I'd stay away. In PA you need a title to register the car, so there's no way that it never had a title. Also, titles never expire, so it's in the DMV system somewhere.

Oh, and you can't do any of the title searching/replacement. It has to be the owner of the car.

Once you get a title, then he signs the back of it saying it was sold to you. Then you can take it into the DMV and get it registered. They'll usually print you a new title then too.

[442w30]

What I did for a 1972 Cutlass I had that the owner died, his ex was selling it and couldn't find the title.

She gave me a bill of sale, I submitted it and the lost title form to the Department of Public Safety.
They post an ad monthly in the paper that asks anyone holding a lien or owns this vehicle to claim it. If no one responds, I get a title issued in my name. I think I had to have insurance during the process, even though it was not roadworthy.

Worked for me ~10 years ago in TX. Should be similar for PA.