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What's better for our environment, the Hummer or Prius?

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  • What's better for our environment, the Hummer or Prius?

    http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/edito...asp?NewsID=188

    March 7, 2007

    Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
    By Chris Demorro
    Staff Writer

    The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

    Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

    The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

    You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

    However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

    Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

    The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

    “The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

    All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

    Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

    When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

    Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

    The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

    So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

    One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
    Last edited by xenophobe; 03-14-2007, 12:07 PM.
    The 2nd Amendment: America's Original Homeland Defense.

  • #2
    80 mph average is much more realistic?

    Not where I drive.

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    • #3
      Getting hummers is definitely better for the environment.
      I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling.

      Comment


      • #4
        I wonder which Hummer they used for their comparison.

        The H2 is a gas hog for sure.
        I drive an H3 during the week and love it. 5 cylinders and got the power I need to visit clients and haul the family around.

        On the weekend I drive MY fun gas hog car......
        Mr. Patience.... ask for a free consultation.

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        • #5
          "I wonder which Hummer they used for their comparison."

          I don't really think that is the point. The energy used and the cost to the environment manufacturing and operating a Hybrid is not a benefit to the buyer or the environment.

          The Hummer comparison is just a good way of driving the point home.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6M4lm9Ahz0

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sevser View Post
            "I wonder which Hummer they used for their comparison."

            I don't really think that is the point. The energy used and the cost to the environment manufacturing and operating a Hybrid is not a benefit to the buyer or the environment.

            The Hummer comparison is just a good way of driving the point home.

            I need a lot more specifics in that article to get to the bottom line. For instance, nowhere in that article does it say that the Sudbury plant ONLY makes nickel for Prius's. For all I know, the damage is causing is from nickel that's routed 99.9% to other manufacturers. Considering the limited amounts of Prius's on the road, and the size of their batteries, then even if the total mass of a battery were made of nickel (which it isn't) the output would not be all that much to fulfill that order. Which makes me wonder, what is this plant doing the other 350 days of the year?

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            • #7
              It isn't just the plant, but the shipping costs and the fuel used to achieve that eco friendly car...I can just picture the trasport trucks and ships with the exhaust bellowing out their stacks....

              How many times do we and up making things worse just to satisfy those stupid (Supposed) environmentally conscious fucks.

              I rented a place for a while and the back deck was rotting...So, I told the owner and he brought me some untreated wood to repair it. I said..."This isn't treated...Its just going to rot again in a couple years" (Worse yet because it wasn’t a covered deck) he gives me this stupid "I am a environmentally conscious snob" speech about how they use chemicals, like deadly arsenic in the treating of the wood...So, I looked at him dumb founded and just went off. (I didn't want to repair this deck for him lol) I said..."so...you figure its better to cut down more trees and burn all that diesel, causing that much more pollution with the loaders, skidders and logging trucks it takes to get this wood to you every few years? When you can have treated wood last for your life time? And as far as the arsenic goes...Your not going to lick the wood THAT much are ya?"

              I am a x logger from BC and I have had my share of tree huggin hippies who know nothing about shit yet they bitch so much (due to the fact that they have so much time on their unemployed hands) they rattle the can enough from time to time to get some frivolous shit put through. It happens on all levels.

              The most environmentally conscious people I have met were loggers. Never met people who loved nature more and respected it. All the propaganda you hear is BS. Now I work in a casino (Due to the logging industery being ground down) that promotes gambling and thrives off people spending money they don't have to satisfy their addictive personalities...Oh, but I degrees... sorry...

              Great article Xen...Thanks.
              Last edited by sevser; 03-14-2007, 01:43 PM.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6M4lm9Ahz0

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              • #8
                My wife has an H3 and it is the best vehicle we have ever owned.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by sevser View Post
                  It isn't just the plant, but the shipping costs and the fuel used to achieve that eco friendly car...I can just picture the trasport trucks and ships with the exhaust bellowing out their stacks....
                  Seems like the argument keeps changing. I mean, go to any port. What do you see? Big tankers with crap from China. So, no more imports? Practically everything is imported. Why single out this one car?

                  As for the arsenic thing, are you sure he wasn't talking about poisoning HIS lawn? I had a similar qualm with insulation recently. Someone kept pitching fiberglass to me. I kept saying no, no, no until I got another contractor. Maybe he was thinking I had environmental concerns. In point of fact, I had health concerns.

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                  • #10
                    "Seems like the argument keeps changing. I mean, go to any port. What do you see? Big tankers with crap from China. So, no more imports? Practically everything is imported. Why single out this one car?"

                    It seem as though the production of the batt alone causes a whole lot of extra shipping and consumption of resources...This article may not be absolute and 100% conclusive but it is good food for thought. Their break down/comparison to other vehicles is very compelling. Not just the Hummer but the Aveo and Scion.

                    As far as the deck/arsenic thing goes...Not a special health concern...He specified it was a enviromental issue...Just a dumb fuck who likes to hop on a environmental high horse without thinking it through...We have lots of these types here. His garage was full of open lawn and garden chemicals and old paint containers that probably had lots o lead n stuff...
                    Last edited by sevser; 03-14-2007, 02:18 PM.
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6M4lm9Ahz0

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by danastas View Post
                      I need a lot more specifics in that article to get to the bottom line. For instance, nowhere in that article does it say that the Sudbury plant ONLY makes nickel for Prius's. For all I know, the damage is causing is from nickel that's routed 99.9% to other manufacturers. Considering the limited amounts of Prius's on the road, and the size of their batteries, then even if the total mass of a battery were made of nickel (which it isn't) the output would not be all that much to fulfill that order. Which makes me wonder, what is this plant doing the other 350 days of the year?
                      The article states the Sudbury plant mines 1,000 tons of nickel a year for the Prius. What is the overall production for the SUdbury plant in a year? Where did you fabricate the 350 days number?

                      Also, did you even figure the amount of environmental damage it takes to process the nickel in Europe, China and Japan into your 'fabriquasion'?
                      Last edited by xenophobe; 03-14-2007, 02:27 PM.
                      The 2nd Amendment: America's Original Homeland Defense.

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                      • #12
                        Consider this statement:

                        "The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid."

                        OK, so 100,000 miles at 50 miles / gallon and 3.00 per gallon implies $6000 in gasoline costs. So that leaves $319,000 dollars to account for in "other" costs. The car only costs $25,000, so the fuel & electricity to ship the battery (& all other parts) around must be significantly less than that if we are to assume Toyota and the dealer are making any profit. Where then does the other $294,000 come from? Replacement tires?

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                        • #13
                          It´s been long that I don´t believe everything I read ...

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                          • #14
                            I guess Hummers don't have batteries?
                            Charvel 7308 (TMZ 008), Charvel Pro-mod (yellow), Jackson Soloist Custom (Yellow), Jackson SL2H-V Natural, Gibson LPS DB, Gibson LPS EB, Gibson LPCC C, Charvel Model 2 (scalloped), Jackson DK2M (white), Charvel Journeyman, Fender Classic Player 60's strat, Carvin C66, Musikraft strat mutt, Warmoth Strat mutt, Fender MIM Jazz bass, Epiphone Classical, Takamine parlor. Marshall 2203, Marshall JVM 210H, Splawn Nitro, Fender Supersonic 22, Line 6 AX2 212, Marshall 4X12.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bert View Post
                              Consider this statement:

                              "The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid."

                              OK, so 100,000 miles at 50 miles / gallon and 3.00 per gallon implies $6000 in gasoline costs. So that leaves $319,000 dollars to account for in "other" costs. The car only costs $25,000, so the fuel & electricity to ship the battery (& all other parts) around must be significantly less than that if we are to assume Toyota and the dealer are making any profit. Where then does the other $294,000 come from? Replacement tires?
                              Hot air!

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