The end of tabs?

[Stelios]

Looks like guitar tab sites are going to have a battle on their hands next year...

As someone who never downloads, always buys CDs but who uses tabs a lot I'm a bit pissed off about this news.

Song sites face legal crackdown

Are tabs killing the music industry? Anyone have any figures on how many songbooks were sold before the internet and how many are being sold now?

[rjohnstone]

Re: The end of tabs?

What a bunch of crap.
Most of the TAB I find online is for stuff that isn't available anywhere else in the first place.
Sure I can see going after the guys who scan the book and post it... that is a copyright violation.
But the guys that sit down and figure the shit out themselves and share it should not be punished.

[Child Of Norther]

Re: The end of tabs?

""Unauthorised use of lyrics and tablature deprives the songwriter of the ability to make a living, and is no different than stealing," he said."

Is the biggest piece of crap i have ever read...


Who the hell goes "Oh, i have the lyrics to the new *band* CD! i don't need to buy it now!"

[toejam]

Re: The end of tabs?

I bet Lars is behind this! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Bert]

Re: The end of tabs?

utter crap.

Besides, most tabs are grossly incorrect anyway!

[Newc]

Re: The end of tabs?

It's not a question of tabs and lyrics competing with CD sales, it's a question of the tabs and lyrics competing with the tab and lyric book sales.

However, I'd like to see this case in court so I could ask them which artists *specifically, by name* make money from their publishing, and which ones don't. Those that DO, their tabs will be removed from the net. Those that were cheated out of their publishing via contract, and all that money goes to the label or publisher, those stay online

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: The end of tabs?

It doesn't much matter Newc. In the US it's absolutely clear that tabs and lyrics published on the 'net are copyright violations. As with CD sales, this is more about publishers / record companies propping up their revenue streams than artists getting a raw deal. Odds are the sites will just move to servers in jurisdictions with more favorable copyright laws.

[sonicsamurai]

Re: The end of tabs?

fucking hell i have to trawl so hard to find all my old 80's rock tabs - i can't find most of the dokken, wasp, impelliteri, becker stuff anywhere else but the net, besides its a persons own original transcription of a song as they see it - they can do what they want with it its their transcription not some company's...grrrr...

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: The end of tabs?

[ QUOTE ]
... besides its a persons own original transcription of a song as they see it - they can do what they want with it its their transcription not some company's...grrrr...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a popular myth but it's a just a myth.

[sonicsamurai]

Re: The end of tabs?

what so u saying that tabbers are just hoarding tab books and printing them on the net? i don't think that's the case...or are you saying that their right is just a myth?

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: The end of tabs?

Copyright law, at least in the US, includes a concept of "derivative works". They're exactly what they sound like: films based on novels, paintings based on photographs, statues based on drawings, written musical scores based on recorded musical works, etc., etc., etc. The bottom line is that if you begin with a copyrighted work and produce your own version of it in another media you've infringed the coypright owned by the author of the original work. Clear as mud?

[FusionFarmer]

Re: The end of tabs?

I think the songbook companies are letting greed cloud their better judgement. Without free tabs many kids would not be playing the guitar right now. Actually playing a song you know and enjoy makes learning the guitar much more appealing to beginners. after honing their skills most beginners do search out a truer version of the music they play. the more people playing the more songbooks sold, this would also severely hurt guitar sales as well.

[Newc]

Re: The end of tabs?

However, derivative works for educational use are allowed, as has been proven in a couple of landmark software-related court cases.

So, as long as these tabs are not merely copied from existing books but rather figured out by an individual there is no copyright violation because it's done for educational purposes. However, there are some restrictions on distributing that info, and that would be the one sticking point in a case like this.
It's fine if you sit and tab out the entire Led Zeppelin catalog note for note, but if you publish those tabs or otherwise make them freely available to the masses, you've crossed over into direct competition with an established business (book printers/publishers) and are negatively impacting their income by providing a free service similar to their unfree service.
It doesn't matter if the tabs you made are not 100% correct, the vast majority would stick with the free tabs and either live with playing it wrong or find the "missing notes" on their own and make the corrections themselves.
If someone DOES distribute the corrected versions, then the books that are being sold instantly lose the price war, and thus none get sold.

Unfortunately, today's society and the laws will always lean in favor of the money, which means your freely distributed, 100% accurate tabs are perceived as a threat to the economy as a whole. The stock markets will crumble overnight and the country will descend into utter cashless chaos by noon tomorrow because you gave away accurate tabs of someone else's song instead of serving the publisher who paid to have it printed in a sellable book, and by serving as free advertisement for that company's book by telling all your friends to buy it.

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: The end of tabs?

Careful Newc, that "educational use" exception is more properly a "classroom teaching" exception and the attendant restrictions are about what you'd expect from the name. Also I don't recall whether or not nondramatic musical works (read "everything RIAA et al. are intersted in") are included, those types of works are often treated differently. That last point is moot though because neither you, nor I at home, nor the folks distributing tabs or lyrics on the 'net would qualify for that exception.

Actually if you sit at home and tab out a complete song you've infringed the author's copyright but you may (or may not) be able to assert a fair use defense. There's no question that you've infringed the copyright but there are arguments that may allow you to successfully defend your infringement as a fair use. Courts examine a number of allegedly equal factors in determining whether a particular infringement is a fair use but copyright lawyers will tell you that some factors are more equal than others. The most critical questions (and the ones that will almost always determine the outcome) will be along the lines of, "Does this work diminish a *POTENTIAL* market that the author may exploit either now or in the future? Is the infringing work being used for commercial advantage by the infringer?" There are several factors but if you go 2-for-2 on those questions, you're going down.

[lerxstcat]

Re: The end of tabs?

If you tab out an item, that implies that YOU learned it by ear. So regarding fair use, why do YOU need the tab of a song you already learned by ear? It's implicit that you mean to give it or sell it to others.

Maybe ytou'll get some ear training if the online tabs disappear. You CAN learn this stuff by ear; if not at speed, get a phrase trainer. You can get it at half or quarter speed at least.