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**Ninja Guitar** · 01-17-2005, 10:44 AM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

Chemistry usually means they got along with the guy really well, which is a very important factor when it comes to working in a band. Better to have people you get along with than people you can't stand, even if the guy you don't get along with is a way more professional player.

Putting together a good band has got to be one of the hardest things in the world to do. One of the little reasons I decided to mainly work as a solo act.

**Riffmeister** · 01-17-2005, 11:04 AM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

But I find it hard to beleive that they were able to say tha after only knowing the guy a half hour, but even so, the singer called me like 4 times before I even went over there and we got along really well. Talked for hours.

As for the other 2 guys, well everything seemed fine, I guess maybe they were intimidated by my knowledge and didnt want anyone telling them anything, and if so, than I really don't want to play with them.

It's jsut tough for me right now cause I have never not gotten a gig I sudtioned for. You guys who know me , know that I dont think I'm some super gutiarist and I cant shred at all, but for the stuff guys want to play around here, I seem to be the only one who can get the job done.

I've even had auditions that I thought I blew or really sucked and still got those. This last band has just got me to the point that I have a serious attitude and I haven't really though that I did till now.

I don't want to be an ass, I'm usually the ladi back kind of guy who doesn't care about anything, but when it comes to the band I'm in, I have these terrible expectations of people.

**Ninja Guitar** · 01-17-2005, 11:21 AM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

Then just make sure you never act like an ass. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] It's the whole thinking before speaking thing.

In music, don't be so expectant of people. First, just find people who you get along with and who're into your kind of music. Even if they're not as technically proficent (spl?) as you'd like them to be, people can learn and improve through time, practice, and hard work. If you at least get together a solid band that gets along well and can play gigs, you'll eventually start attracting other musicians when you play gigs. So if someone has to leave the band, you'll have plenty of contacts to keep the band going.

01-17-2005, 11:21 AM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

They probably took him because it sounds like he was more on the lines of talent than they are, seeing that they weren't playing the druma nd bass parts correctly anyway. I wouldn't trip, it's beneath you, laugh and go to the next...

They're just out of your league and they prolly recognized that.

Pat

**Riffmeister** · 01-17-2005, 11:42 AM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

I have no problem with people who will try and improve and get better, and can take some constructive critisism. I just want to make sure that I don't spend 2 months with guys and find out that they are not gonna listen to anything.

The last guy I played with tole me, I argue with you casue I know so much about music. And this is the sme guy who tough that it didn't matter if I played the right chord, say an Am for example and he played a B instead. Oh you can't hear the difference he says!

I just don't want to go through that again.

Pat,

That's just it, I am willing to play with guys who have less talent than I, even though that wouldn't be much [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] HAHAHA! , but If the bass player is playing a minor run over a major chord or vice versa, and I say, it goes like this, I just want him to say , ok I'll try it and see if it sounds better.

But I have been getting comments from guys like" Your the guitar player, you don't know anything about bass", But yet I can play both, They just don't want to listen to anything.

I guess I am trying to find out all this stuff in an hour instead of spending and wasting any time, but it is comeing across the wrong way and making me look like a jerk

I was told that I think too much of my self , because I said that I couldn't sit there and shred Yngwie stuff like some of the guys around here, but I could play Rythym better than half of them, which A: Is true and B: is more important that being able to shred.

There are very few musicians in my area and most of them are lazy and they learn how to play solos before they learn the basics.

If I think too mucch of myself casue I said that I can't shred or play a lot of Van Halen type stuff, well then I am an idiot I guess!

I have just realized that I am sitting here bithsing and whineing about something so stupid that it is making me mad.

I just wish I could get in a decent band, that's all I want, and the scene here is so bad that y chances are only comeing once or twice a year and then they ene up like this [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Sorry for all this bullcraop guys, I just need to vent somewhere, and you guys probably have had the same situation many of time and know how to handlei it better that I am now.

**Ninja Guitar** · 01-17-2005, 11:55 AM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

I'd also suggest looking for musicians who're more mature and near your level.

Don't worry about venting, we all need to do it every now and then. Putting together a good, hard working band is very, very difficult.

**Newc** · 01-17-2005, 11:56 AM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

On Stage is NOT the place to learn how to play together. If those guys - or ANYONE - think they will improve by being in a band, they're sadly mistaken. They'll still sound like sh1t a year from now if they stay together, because they will each only learn and progress at their own pace.
If you've put the time and effort into learning what you know, it's not unreasonable to expect prospective bandmates to be at your level at least.

We had a similar situation with a bassist - damn hardest thing to find around here; We get this guy in who is a huge Nikki Sixx fan, has a BRAND NEW Punisher bass, a bass amp the size of a refrigerator, all the dedication and determination to live the dream, and absolutely zero skills. Talent, potential, and gear he had - he just did not have the time invested that we did, and he was a problem because of it. He didn't last.
It's a PITA when you have to teach a bassist how to "feel for" a I-IV-V 12-bar blues progression on stage, when me, the singer, and the drummer had an almost psychic link about it.
Most of the time we didn't use visual cues, we just "knew" when and where to put changes and such in a straight-out jam, be it Metal or Blues.

Don't feel bad about coming across as a prick - being a slacker who's too lazy or stupid to learn how to play properly BEFORE forming a band is NOT any sort of goal to strive for, and that word needs to get out. You don't learn by playing with others who also suck, you learn individually by listening to pre-recorded bands that don't suck and that do it right, so that when you DO get a band, everyone knows how to play the song properly.

If you give 4 guys the same copy of a song and give them a week to learn it as it is on the record, not everyone's gonna have their part nailed that soon. This doesn't make them a bad musician, but it isn't going to get them many gigs, either, unless the rest of the band is willing to work together to find out what's wrong, and address such an issue as being "something wrong" up front.
If the drummer just hears it in his head differently, he needs to close his head and open his ears, because it's going to sound like sh1t until everyone's hearing and repeating the exact same song.

And no, it is no fun being the most talented/experienced/best player in a band. I been there, I done that. This one guy, his brother, and their cousin wanted to do a band. The guy singing sounded like Bryan Adams, kinda, if he were drunk, kicked in the head a few times, and a chain-smoker, and only knew partial lyrics to the songs he wanted us to play (he didn't even know the titles to most of them). His brother, the drummer, couldn't sit behind the kit for more than 5 minutes at a time. Their cousin, the bassist, was too busy getting stoned and tending to her unreasonably-jealous husband to know anything aside from "Country Bass".
Here I was ripping through everything from Sabbath to Surf City and they were simply amazed, but they knew they wanted to be in a band with me [img]/images/graemlins/brow.gif[/img]
Maybe some other time, kids.

**charvelguy** · 01-17-2005, 12:08 PM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

Well then you let them put the band together have them suck on their own merit-and you find another gig.

Sorry for the resulting novella..

Dude, it's politics and much of it stems from how things played out and how it was perceived from what was said and done. Take it from someone who's been up and down, in and out, pissed people off, people had pissed me off etc..you can be a hero one minute and a dog out in the cold the next with just a bad day/night/ gig/ rehearsal or a comment.

You may not have thought you did anything wrong.. and I'm pretty sure you didn't as far as your intent goes. But the issue here is 'they' (and you have to think about who 'they' is) thought you did something, said something or a number of things to have a change of mind.

Chemistry means 'they' may want to have someone who was still controllable/moldable. Sometimes a democracy is not a democracy... it's a couple guys who are close to one another and still have the final say and they don't want someone coming in running things and telling them personally what to do or play. (and I'm sure it was unintentional because you're intentions were to have the entire band be on their toes, have people who pull their weight and learn their stuff and show up to put together a gigable format..because that is what pro's do.)

However, the thing is you gotta allow people some slack unless they're a total pro format or established band already. People do have work ethic, (even in band/music), both as individuals and as a band.. they should realize for themselves what they need to work on, what works, what doesn't. In that respect, everyone is their own leader.
and with that constructive criticisms can be perceived as negative. So at first, everybody needs a little breathing room to get to know one another better.

I think the issue here is you stepped on the base members toes by doing... "I also let them know that I knew how the bass parts and drum parts go to all this stuff and wanted them to play it right cause I had just gotten out of a band that sucked cause they played whatever they wanted to"
Man.. this sounds right out of 'Rock Star' the movie.

1) you slammed your previous band....however deserving it may seem...it's like slamming your previous employer/supervisor to your next prospective employer/company..ya don't do it. It can tend to make you look bad no matter what the real story is.
That is like telling a prospective chick singer/bandleader you don't normally work with women because you think women are more difficult to work with. 'Doh!~

2) you were self assured with ability, video clips.. etc
it is not a bad thing to have a presentable pro resume. However, people still do look for a down to earth sincerity. You weren't established in the band as a seasoned member but you were already dictating charge
- I think that put them off or scared them off. You came across as almost too self assured. Confidence is a good thing.. you shou;dn't have to change yourself for them. So in all likelihood wasn't a good match.

Chances may be that they will take your suggestions and look for another guy who less dominating who can sing his ass off or slug it out as a hack band until they work thru those very issues that will hold them back.

If you didn't think the band was gigable in it's format, do you think things are going to be pleasant as far as 'chemistry' later when it comes to the work part?

Find a more pro format, kill em with having your sh!t down and your finesse, your gear but as far as suggestions and running things go..keep a low profile, contribute when you can. After you've established yourself a few months and a few gigs down the road
If I may, cause I'm not trying to bust your nuts here.. but let me pass this on.
Two things you also want to consider..if you are going to name drop, do it gently. If you are going to slam someone when making first impressions.. bite your tongue.
Also.. even showing up with the wrong guitar or the wrong amp can have you lose a gig.

Really.. at this time and probably in the long run.. sounds like they are rather sensitive for the industry in a pro sense and they probably won't last so this will be a good thing when something better comes along.

It almost sounds as tho you need to hook up with one other individual who will be a reliable workable musician friend (or two) in the long haul and put togther your own format. just my .04.
[img]/images/graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

**Riffmeister** · 01-17-2005, 12:34 PM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

Thanks for the input guys. I am pretty sure that I did sound like a cocky ass and it all came across wrong, cause I didn't mean to be like that.

I just figured that since this bass polayer was only 23 and he did have a lot of talent, that I could help him, and it came across wrong.

I mean I am not a bass player, but can CORRECTLy play the bass lines to any kiss stuff , Crazy Train and the trees, so I do know a bit of how to play it and I guess I shouldn't really be like that.

I'm really not an egotistical idiot and I am willing to admit that I probably did come across liek that even though I had good intentions.

As far ss slamming my other band, that came across becasue the idiot gutarist who joined my band , was the reason I quit and he sucked and he was an arrogant idiot who couldn't play anythihng right.

Well the guys I was auditionig for said the last guy they had was an arrogant idiot who couldn't play things right( sound Familiar) and that he quit them to join a band called Backlash, well that was my band , so they knew him and were faniliar about Backlash after they looked at the web site etc.

They actually started slaming them before me and that got me started. BUT I never thought about the fact that I shouldn't do that, and now I will be aware of not doing it in the future, if there is a musical future for me that is.

I did think that they were gigable with a little work and someone who could sing back ups, that's why I was upset when they didn't want me to play with them.

Like I said, there aren't awhole lot of people to play with around here and as MAtt said, Bass players are very rare.

I think some of my problem is cause I have always played with my Brother, who is an EXCELENT bass player , has a great voice and also ended up being our other guitar player and was great at that. He basicall just played everything as it was on the record, and it was always right, whether we were playin YYZ, Or he was playing guitar to Ozzy and VAn Halen.

When he quit for good it was and still has been a major shock for me to find people with the same talent\drive and work ethic as him.

The oter thing is, it was always fun, because for one it always sounded good and for another, it didnt take us forever to learn stuff.

Thant't the only thing I disagree with NEWC about, We would learn 5 or 6 tunes a week and have them down.

I guess I am going to have to learn to jsut keep my mouth shut and actually take chances on wasting my time and effort to find guys who can actually play. Everyone around here wants to be in a band , but hardly anyone wants to work at it.

**Shawn Lutz** · 01-17-2005, 12:47 PM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

Maybe they liked your playing but thought you were being too pushy or a control freak or something. Maybe the "leader" felt you were stepping on his toes.

Judging by your posts, you would be better off starting your own group, picking the people YOU want to collaborate with instead of you trying to find an already established act.

Chemistry is not overrated and if a group has good chemistry they can over come some minor talent inefficiencies.

**Tetsuo** · 01-17-2005, 01:07 PM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

[ QUOTE ]
On Stage is NOT the place to learn how to play together. If those guys - or ANYONE - think they will improve by being in a band, they're sadly mistaken. They'll still sound like sh1t a year from now if they stay together, because they will each only learn and progress at their own pace.
If you've put the time and effort into learning what you know, it's not unreasonable to expect prospective bandmates to be at your level at least.

We had a similar situation with a bassist - damn hardest thing to find around here; We get this guy in who is a huge Nikki Sixx fan, has a BRAND NEW Punisher bass, a bass amp the size of a refrigerator, all the dedication and determination to live the dream, and absolutely zero skills. Talent, potential, and gear he had - he just did not have the time invested that we did, and he was a problem because of it. He didn't last.
It's a PITA when you have to teach a bassist how to "feel for" a I-IV-V 12-bar blues progression on stage, when me, the singer, and the drummer had an almost psychic link about it.
Most of the time we didn't use visual cues, we just "knew" when and where to put changes and such in a straight-out jam, be it Metal or Blues.

Don't feel bad about coming across as a prick - being a slacker who's too lazy or stupid to learn how to play properly BEFORE forming a band is NOT any sort of goal to strive for, and that word needs to get out. You don't learn by playing with others who also suck, you learn individually by listening to pre-recorded bands that don't suck and that do it right, so that when you DO get a band, everyone knows how to play the song properly.

If you give 4 guys the same copy of a song and give them a week to learn it as it is on the record, not everyone's gonna have their part nailed that soon. This doesn't make them a bad musician, but it isn't going to get them many gigs, either, unless the rest of the band is willing to work together to find out what's wrong, and address such an issue as being "something wrong" up front.
If the drummer just hears it in his head differently, he needs to close his head and open his ears, because it's going to sound like sh1t until everyone's hearing and repeating the exact same song.

And no, it is no fun being the most talented/experienced/best player in a band. I been there, I done that. This one guy, his brother, and their cousin wanted to do a band. The guy singing sounded like Bryan Adams, kinda, if he were drunk, kicked in the head a few times, and a chain-smoker, and only knew partial lyrics to the songs he wanted us to play (he didn't even know the titles to most of them). His brother, the drummer, couldn't sit behind the kit for more than 5 minutes at a time. Their cousin, the bassist, was too busy getting stoned and tending to her unreasonably-jealous husband to know anything aside from "Country Bass".
Here I was ripping through everything from Sabbath to Surf City and they were simply amazed, but they knew they wanted to be in a band with me [img]/images/graemlins/brow.gif[/img]
Maybe some other time, kids.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good Post!

**charvelguy** · 01-17-2005, 01:39 PM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

Dude, you have a future in music as long as you put the time in and have the desire. Sometimes the scene travels in small circles.

Given they were so close to the guitarist who quit and who hooked up with the other band..who knows what was said.

This getting to be high school click nit picky about personality sh!t. I wouldn't be to hard on yourself, sounds like it was a messed up situation, but sometimes you have to watch overstating your confidence in anything but your playing. Everybody wants to think they're the sh!t or has the stuff until someone else rips the rug out..and people can do that deliberatly.

I have a difficult time puttin up with sh!t and biting my tongue sometimes too. I've played in bands where I'll play one gig, where things went bad one night and well better the next, but the singer said something over the PA I thought was totally unacceptable bullsh!t on the off night...so, I am not going to deal with the lack of professionalism or respect there...see ya. It can be a fine line between self respect and disrespect because someone had a big mouth and a few to many, but some things can't be dismissed. Sometimes people just do not give a rip. So you need to do what you need to do to live with it and yourself.

You should consider networking a demo outside your town but still in your area/state where you can hookup with a better established act. Just like work.. you go where the jobs are..sometimes you have to go where the gigs are.. or relocate for something you love.

**charvelguy** · 01-17-2005, 01:52 PM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

[ QUOTE ]
On Stage is NOT the place to learn how to play together. If those guys - or ANYONE - think they will improve by being in a band, they're sadly mistaken.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.. but believe me, there are bands out there who do not rehearse or they're in a schedule/format or a lounge/club where rehearsals are not possible. You learn your stuff... you do a little one-one rehearsal backstage..you go up and you do the song, cold. Add to that.. you're playing with a sequencer..not alot of margin for error after the click off. I worked with a group of guys who were so die hard pro they wouldn't set aside any rehearsal time...you got up and did it, if it lacked, then it was picked apart post gig and worked out where the harmony was off etc..that was a challenging gig.

**illumina** · 01-17-2005, 02:10 PM

Re: Major Attitude problem!

what band, rick?

hows the bengal treating you?

~Eric

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