Going to the class for my pistol permit

[jgcable]

Its about time. I am calling today to get into the next class. They charge $125.00 for the class. I then have to do a bunch of other stuff to get my carrying permit. All my friends carry and they tell me its great fun to ride your Harley to the gun range and shoot things. I want to have that great fun too. Plus... the world seems to be getting quite sick lately and I feel the need for some protection. After I get the CT license I am going for the Utah one that covers 39 more states.

I don't know what type of gun I will end up with but I will try out several.

[LouSiffer]

For carry, I REALLY hate to say this, but, I am going to recommend the Glock G19. Its big enough to shoot and small enough to carry. I am a 1911 Fan Boy. To me there is no funner gun to shoot. It is a better looking gun than the Glock on all accounts. However, it is just not as reliable and do not let anyone argue with you that it is. I have both and I can assure you, I carry the Glock to protect my life. I take the 1911 to the range.

If you do not want to get a Glock just based on looks alone, I can't say I blame you. I would recommend and S&W M&P pistol. Those guns get great reviews and seem to be converting quite a few Glock owners.

As far as caliber goes, I choose the 9mm. I like to shoot the .45 caliber, but, I want more bullets. You will see some guys beat their chests and say " If you can't kill it with 7 rounds, you don't nbeed to be shooting ". Those guys are fucking idiots and often times sit there and watch football thinking " I can do that !". Those guys have never been in a high stress situation such as a gun fight and are talking bullshit out of their ass.

I have never heard someone complain about having too many bullets. I have have also never heard someone complain about having too few bullets.......because they are probably dead. The .40 cal round is just a compromise. Go with the 9mm. It will kill someone if you shoot them in the same spot as the .45. If you feel you must use a bigger caliber.....skip the .40 and go directly to the .45 in a double stack config.....but, you are now carrying a hog leg. Keep in mind, there is no such thing as " knock down " power with a pistol.....and just about any gun. There is "stopping power" and " Lethality ". I want " stopping power ". -Lou

[rjohnstone]

The .40 cal round is just a compromise. Go with the 9mm. It will kill someone if you shoot them in the same spot as the .45. If you feel you must use a bigger caliber.....skip the .40 and go directly to the .45 in a double stack config.....but, you are now carrying a hog leg. Keep in mind, there is no such thing as " knock down " power with a pistol.....and just about any gun. There is "stopping power" and " Lethality ". I want " stopping power ". -Lou

What's wrong with the .40?
I see no compromise at all. It's the best of both rounds in my view.
While it's slightly smaller than the .45, it has a hell of a lot more punch than a 9mm.

I carry a G22 with a standard 15 round mag loaded with 180gr JHP.
Very comfortable.

I do love the .45 round. I miss my old S&W 4506 (12 rounds double stacked), but the thing was a beast to carry. Hog leg is a good way to describe it.

[LouSiffer]

According to James Yeager. .40s are for guys with little dicks. ( see link below ) LOL!! Seriously, the reason I don't like .40s for carry defense is that early .40s were based on 9mm frames and have a higher muzzle pressure. The guns were kind of horrible to shoot. They are better, but, I can take a 9mm and pull the trigger as fast as I want and stay on target the whole time. .40's and .45s have a higher recoil rate. I am 6 ft and 250 pounds, fairly strong and shoot frequently.... and I can not keep the gun on target with .40 and .45s like I can a 9mm.

When you are debating 9mm, .40 and .45....its like one guy screaming his bike does 200MPH the next guy saying his does 205MPH and the third saying his does 210MPH. When you are going that fast, what difference does it make between the three? I will take the one that is more than enough to do the job, but, I can stay on target. Hitting your target multiple times with a smaller round that is more than enough to do the job is more effective than missing your target multiple times with a bigger round.

I know someone will say " Well, don't miss. " I agree, but, as Bill Z will agree as he and I have a similar background, until you have been in a high stress situation where gun fire is going in both directions, you really have no idea what reality in gun fights is. Those 7 rounds in a .45 will disappear real quick. Hell, those 15 rounds in a 9mm or .40 will disappear real quick. -Lou


http://youtu.be/zzyGdULmn98

[bonghits]

What's wrong with the .40?
I see no compromise at all. It's the best of both rounds in my view.
While it's slightly smaller than the .45, it has a hell of a lot more punch than a 9mm.

I carry a G22 with a standard 15 round mag loaded with 180gr JHP.
Very comfortable.

I do love the .45 round. I miss my old S&W 4506 (12 rounds double stacked), but the thing was a beast to carry. Hog leg is a good way to describe it.

I'm with you on this one. I'm waiting for my CHL permit to arrive and when it does, I'll be carrrying either my G22 FDE or G23 loaded with Winchester 165gr bonded HP.

[xenophobe]

If you're looking for concealed, I really like the Kahr pistols... they're like mini Glocks, but made out of metal, and you can get it in .40. Or I'd suggest one of the Kimber Ultra CDP... can't really get a better compact .45 without spending a ton more.

The compact Glocks are nice. I wouldn't get a full size for concealed carry though. Glocks are like revolvers, if it's loaded, it's ready to fire. They're very accurate and super reliable. I'd still recommend something else. A good Airweight S&W in .38 would be good.

If 6 bullets isn't going to save your life in a SD scenario, it's highly unlikely that 15+ will.

9 is fine if you're using fancy hollowpoints. .380 is even acceptable if you're willing to pay for CorBon or some other +P+ load... but it might chew up your gun. .40 is a bit overpowering... very snappy and a little painful, but it does have stopping power. I'd rather have the .380 for compactness, or the .45 for stopping power.

[rjohnstone]

I hear ya. 9mm, .40, .45... none of it matters if you can't keep it on target.
Buy what works for you. The "little dick" comment was cute.
I'm 6' 3" 230lbs and have no issues keeping my G22 or my dick on target.

My .45 was great if I wanted to beat someone to death with it, but it wasn't the most accurate weapon I've ever fired.
Still very fun to shoot though.

My favorite is the Colt Delta Elite 10mm. I could empty that into a 2"-3" pattern at 25' all day long. Just too damn expensive.

I can't hold a sub compact like the 23. I fired one ONCE. Simply too small for my hand. The slide took off a few millimeters of skin on the first shot.
I guess I could deal with it if it had an extender on the mag, but it was simply too tiny in stock form.

Part of why I bought a Gen 4 G22. I can change the back strap size to better fit my hand.

[straycat]

I have had my CCW for a long time and used to carry a Springfield ultra compact 45ACP.
Not my first choice for CC.Switched to SIG 239 9mm very compact but felt good in the hands and easy to draw.
Carry a Glock 19 gen 2 and its a great reliable weapon.
Learn the law in your state to the "T" and I mean all the gray areas so if you have to use it you won't be the one going to jail.
I had to use mine twice, once to stop a robbery and once to keep some thugs from robbing me.
Lots of practice and get proficient in its use.
Key thing get a gun that fits your hand so you can manipulate the safety and drop the mag with one hand while getting the other ready to go in just in case you need it.
Looks isn't as important as function.Get a good holster and don't skimp in that dept.

[LouSiffer]

My Glock G19 is a Gen 4. What Straycat says about finding a gun that fits your hands and getting a good holster is very true. I preach that over and over. Practice your draw and fire. One key thing no one tells you to practice is to move, draw and fire. A mobile target is a tough target. A target that is mobile and shoots accurately is very deadly. Whether you move straight back, right or left is irrelevant. Once you start moving, it is a domino effect and you should continue.

To clarify, because I know someone will pipe up about it, is this: Practice drawing and shooting moving back, left and right. Get good at all directions. Your situation will dictate what direction to move. Once you start moving, keep moving if possible. You do NOT need to stand your ground and have a shootout if you are able to escape. Killing the bad guy is not as important as living.

Also, take some pistol defense classes. I get irritated because few people offer these and even fewer take them. I could go on and on about this issue, but, to put it simple, if you carry, you know there is at least one gun involved. Having possession of the gun means nothing if you are not in control of it. I am a big guy and not the fastest guy. However, if someone and I were within 10 feet of each other, I would venture to say I would end up with their gun in my hands 7 or 8 out of 10 times. In cruel terms, there is an 80% chance they are dead.

James Yeager at Tactical Response has some good info on Youtube. He is probably 90% cold hard facts and about 10% ego and over opinionated and very emotional. However, this guy knows his shit. So much so, I am taking a couple of his classes on combat fighting this year.-Lou

[Jack Napalm]

Killing the bad guy is not as important as living.

This


You can listen to all the other bullshit and rhetoric but remember that living is the most important thing. A gun is not the only thing that can protect yourself or others. Carrying a gun demands a different state of mind and is a huge responsibility. Don't underestimate it and don't be the fool that gets caught with it in a place it should not be.

[rjohnstone]

This


You can listen to all the other bullshit and rhetoric but remember that living is the most important thing. A gun is not the only thing that can protect yourself or others. Carrying a gun demands a different state of mind and is a huge responsibility. Don't underestimate it and don't be the fool that gets caught with it in a place it should not be.

Agreed.
When you carry, check the ego at the door.
I've walked away from a lot of shit that could have ended badly. I know my ego is not worth my freedom or my life.
If leaving is an option, leave.
That being said, I follow Lou's advice. Practice, practice, practice.
Better prepared than dead.

Glocks are like revolvers, if it's loaded, it's ready to fire. They're very accurate and super reliable.

That was an issue that concerned me when I was deciding on what to buy, but it was the most comfortable weapon I could find.
Fits my hand wonderfully and I can control it.
I went with a holster that has a full trigger cover (Blackhawk Serpa). Nice adjustable holster for different draw angles and very solid build.
Not very concealable, but it doesn't jab my gun into my ribs either.

[straycat]

All very good advice.

[RacerX]

if you have to use it you won't be the one going to jail.
I had to use mine twice, once to stop a robbery and once to keep some thugs from robbing me.

I would like to hear about these incidents.

[j2379]

Good luck John, here in NY its almost impossible to get a concealed carry permit unless you can prove you transport large sum of cash.

[Jacksons Rock]

Looking for a gun myself. Three youths tried to break in my house yesterday afternoon around 4PM while I was at home. Luckily all it took was me yelling at the side door for them to scurry. Thinking about calling ADT as well.

Edit: bought a new Mossberg 500 Persuader/Cruiser and a couple boxes of Winchester Super X #4 Buckshot loads earlier today. Someone from ADT is stopping the house this Saturday for an install consultation.

I'll sleep a little easier tonight.