DIRTY RAT

[brett8388]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Exactly. THE SELLER IS THE ASSHOLE HERE.

Joe, if you get the guitar, my offer to buy it still stands if the guitar is original and unmod'd. Why don't you post your paypal receipt (delete the personal info) and the seller's email address for a little encouragement from the JCF? It worked with carrguitar. If this is against the JCF rules, then scratch that idea.

Incidentally, the seller never replied to my IM offer you suggested I make.

Brett

[Ironhead_metal]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Originally posted by charvel750:
Regardless of it being backdoored or not, the seller HAD/HAS my money. That means done deal.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly! Money has changed hands; ergo, the deal is done. Thus the seller is required to ship the guitar to Joe. Period. You can't just 'undo' a deal after it is completely finalized. Wouldn't that be illegal?

[lerxstcat]

Re: DIRTY RAT

It is illegal but it's a civil matter so all you can really do is sue for your money back, plus court costs. You might tack a bit on for your aggravation, but the judge may not grant you that.

Assuming you win in court, the court still doesn't automatically make the guy pay; you would have to pay a marshall to go to his residence or business and attach his property, like his car for example. They can lock a "boot" on the wheel and it doesn't come off till he pays. Of course you have to do a DMV search to see if he does own a car, then
pay for the marshall to boot it. You don't get that money back, it's cost of enforcing your judgement.

I did a lot of that for my boss in the plumbing business, when people decided they didn't want to pay. It's enough hassle when the defendant is in your own town, but if they live in another part of the country you would probably have to travel there to prosecute the case. For $450 would it be worth it?

[charvelguy]

Re: DIRTY RAT

From the little I've read as I have my own legal woes to deal with, it's a verbal contract. Verbal contracts are enforceable, but can be difficult to prove from my understanding. If it was a long distance phone call traceable to a billing, then you have proof of your call, the length of conversation at the very least, as well as the timing between it and the payment you sent.

It's the agreement in that call, the terms of whether it did take place or if the payment was enough that would probably be in contest. This is one instance where an email written agreement from him would have come in handy as well. If you have any emails to him stating offer, dollar amount, obviously, those help your stance.


Call the court to find out what the maximum is in small claims, it varies from state to state.

If he's out of state, then I would think you must file in the county he lives. That means more expense for you and while that can be transfered onto him in a lawsuit..you still have to win and then take the risk that the judge may contest issues of the agreement per law and decide to cut down your claim costs or hopefully find you totally justified in balking at the seller's breaking what was basically a Gentleman's agreement. A mans word used to account for something when laws were made...so it should still apply now.

Otherwise, without adequate proof...you are dumping $ into a sinkhole of more aggrevation.

[Hamner1]

Re: DIRTY RAT

I agree with Kevin in that the seller is the only rat in this case.

In my opinion Joe did nothing wrong. If the seller was willing to end the auction early then that was the sellers choice. The seller certainly could have said, no thank you, I am going to let the auction run its course. Instead the seller saw an opportunity to get the guitar sold quickly and took it. I couldn't give a rats ass if he later found out it was potentially worth more money. Joe paid the money and the asshole took the money, deal done Joe should have a new guitar.

The seller should be strung up by his testicles, tarred & feathered. The same should happen to the rat, if there is a rat out there that killed the deal just for the sake of killing the deal.

[lerxstcat]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Well, Joe having paid, he should get the guitar; however, when he joined Ebay he agreed to abide by their terms, which includes NOT backdooring auctions. Now Ebay lets the seller end the auction early to sell to the high bidder THROUGH EBAY. That means paying Ebay fees on the auction. They do NOT allow pulling the auction so you can circumvent Ebay fees, which is what seems to have happened here. That's an important distinction.

So, having paid for the guitar, he should get it. Having agreed with Ebay not to
make backdoor deals, he broke his word when he did solicit a backdoor deal from
the seller. He's in the right in one way, but in the wrong in the other. Of course those who believe in backdoor deals won't want to see it that way, but
you are breaking your word as given to Ebay in order to use their site.

Re: DIRTY RAT

i still think the seller was just in it to rip someone off.

[dinkyjacksonman]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Originally posted by jem777LNG:
i still think the seller was just in it to rip someone off.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly.That is what I thought.
And why would you want to buy a guitar from someone that has no feedback.
That is already risky even after having conversation by chat.

[Chasbo]

Re: DIRTY RAT

OK, I finally got through this whole post. Took almost an hour to do so!

I am sorry you haven't gotten the axe yet dude, and even more sorry that you may never get it. I think if I was in your shoes right now, I would be more worried that I would never get my money back at all since this guy is a zero feedback seller and that becomes a distinct posibillity.

I think like most on the forum probably do, that he has already shipped the guitar to someone else who offered more cash to him after you made your payment, because of his belated point of telling you how "bad" the guitars condition is, that's such a big line of BS. If that someone is a JCF member I think its more than a little sad. Even though we don't know each other on a personal basis, there is still the fact that we "should" treat each other with honor and respect.

This however is purely a case of the seller being in the COMPLTETE wrong. I don't personally see any real evidence a JCFer screwed you. The seller should send you the axe (he won't of course)since he did accept payement from you 1st. That makes him the dirty seeping penis of a diseased rat.

I sincerely hope you get at least your cash back on this bro.

Chuck

[charvelguy]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Yeah, I went back and read more on this, and I agree, I'd be worried this guy has scammed yer money by playing you on your desire and trust.

If he backstabbed ya on your deal, who knows what depth of low he will go to. I know you were probably in a hurry to send cash on an agreement so it would be considered a done deal (in most deals it would, however, a thief doesn't ask permission) I hope you didn't let yourself get so excited it outweighed good judgement.

Did you use paypal's guaranteed buyer protection program or a credit card as insurance? Something tells me this was a bank transfer unless he set up a premier/business acct.

[metalchuck]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Originally posted by Soloist1:
Jacksonshredder used to be a member of this board. He routinely bids on Jackson guitars on eBay later to retract his bid. As a matter of fact he probably retracts more bids than the ones he gets outbid on. He has no cash for the guitars but bids anyhow. I guess he just likes to bid.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why Don't you email Jacksonshredder and Ask him
why he pulled his bid, or did not rebid
maybe he was waiting till the last min but Charvel 750 had the seller end the auction

it is my understanding that since Jacksonshredder is not here to defend himself we should not make judgements about him

Also he seems like a cool guy to me he helped me get my two Custom Randy Rhoads

[lerxstcat]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Bottom line is, when you venture into backdoor deal territory it can be like going into the hood to score crack. You might get something good for cheap, but you also might get mugged since you're dealing in the dark, not the light. It's more risky, that's a fact, not knocking anybody, but we all know that's true.

[Deneb]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Did I say anything about him here or not here? Nope, not a single word.

I just said, it's fishy, someone bids on a guitar, then retracts, saying wrong bid, but does not re-bid.

Maybe that is who you need to look to Charvel750.

What happened to Shredder, was he here and was banned or left for whatever reason?

[Deneb]

Re: DIRTY RAT

I back doored before. That DK1 Errie Swirl I just got. The seller had it listed as a soloist, I bid 480$, I get outbid, then I get a second chance offer from ebay saying he is willing to sell it to me for my bid price. I email him and say, it's not a soloist, it's 22 fret bolt on, and to me, it's only worth 420$ shipped.

He agrees, I pay, end of story, I get a guitar, he gets the money.

By backdooring (which, I did not rip anyone off, 1st buyer did not want it due to it not being a soloist). I saved 60$ plus 29$ shipping. By just saying, to me it's not worth as much as you're asking, I saved 89$. 89 bucks pays my electric for a month.

Granted, that's a little different type of back door, I didn't email the seller and say, take guitar away from X person I'll give you 20$ more.


Look at this.

Seller has 0 feedback.

Someone bid under ebay user name, Jacksonshredder, bid 450$, retracted bid..due to wrong amount.
I see Jacksonshredder has 309 FB, has been an Ebay User since 1996 (internet connections had to suck back then!)
I see he has a few negs, and a ALOT positives. However, someone with 309 FB RARELY enters the wrong bid amount. What did he want to enter, 45$? What did he want to enter 405? 4500$?

If he entered the wrong bid amount, then why not rebid? That in itself is fishy.


Okay, 0 feedback seller, with a super nice guitar, 551 people looked at it. Apparently the guy is not a complete dult. The pics are not great, but not bad.

551 people. That's quite a few. Why did not someone else bid? Waiting to snipe it? Or the low feedback thing got them thinking...a back door deal!

I had sent the seller an email after I saw this post, because I was one of those 551 people who looked, and I said "There is a big topic on the internet about the ethics of this. I was interested in the guitar, but after hearing what I heard, seeing what I saw, I would not buy it from you for 40$).


The seller has Charvel750's money (is that USD? [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
The seller has the guitar.
Charvel does not have the guitar.
Charvel does not have his money.

Ebay policies aside.
Backdooring ethics aside.

You pay, you get, it's that simple.

I would send him a few emails saying that you paid, and it is a binding contract, money is legal tender for debts both public and private. You made a debt of 450$ plus 35 shipping for this guitar, and you paid it with paypal...legal tender last I checked.

I sure hope you used your credit card, just say he is a fraud, get them on it to get your money back. Maybe that will help you.

Bottom line, I think the seller is a fuggin scheister, Maybe there was not a rat at all, and he just figures, fuck you, I'll keep your money.

[Soloist1]

Re: DIRTY RAT

Jacksonshredder used to be a member of this board. He routinely bids on Jackson guitars on eBay later to retract his bid. As a matter of fact he probably retracts more bids than the ones he gets outbid on. He has no cash for the guitars but bids anyhow. I guess he just likes to bid.