Damn buzzing!

[j2379]

its totally half assed and a crap shoot but ive had decent luck with putting a lighter between the strings and the fret board and using string tension to pull the neck and adjust where the bow in the neck is. took about 6 months for me to get an old neglected warlock to bow correctly but it worked and has been fine for the past 10 years. granted that neck was mahogany so it probably would have taken even longer if it was maple.

[ginsambo]

Put the heating on and all my guitars are starting to go buzzy. Just a thought but how worn were your lower frets when you took it to the tech - ie Gibsony frets wear down fast. Maybe he did a crown and it worked there and then, just about, but what it really needed was the upper frets on the lower strings (That don't get played that often grinding down and leveling, but he thought it wasn't worth it for the cost and time being as it would ideally be better to refret the lower worn frets instead and relevel the whole thing which would have equalled extra cost. If you set the neck straight and get a long steel rule you can see if the last few frets are higher, similar to a rising tongue or a relieved neck, but when the neck is actually straight. When I get the buzz you are tallking about it is nearly always the upper most frets on the lower strings which are not worn and like brand new and need leveling down. Sometimes it is better to just replace the most worn frets down low though to save all of them overall. Sometimes there is only so much a tech can do without pulling some frets, and the weather always shows up the fretwork. Just a thought.

Take it back to the Tech, it is his problem because you cannot eleviate the buzz with the truss rod. My money is that he did a compromise on the fret level and it may actually have needed some frets replaced and he knew it, or he just didn't level the uppermost frets. Either way it is his problem to sort. Gibson frets....In the space of a year I have almost worn out two Pro mod semi jumbo frets.

[DalyTek]

The setup and fretwork was done a couple of months ago, would it still be his problem?
I checked with my straight edge and the frets all look nicely leveled, except for the last couple frets are just a hair lower than the rest (which is a good thing from what I read online.)
I have the action raised just a hair over 3mm and the buzz is gone on the open E string. I don't head it at all on the 1st fret, but I hear it loud and annoyingly clear starting at the 2nd fret.
The buzz is there distinctly all the way through about the 20th-21st frets. The last 1-2 frets I can't tell if it's there or not.

None of frets are worn down or flattened or otherwise visibly damaged. My fret rocker is not showing any high or low frets. But there's gotta be something I'm overlooking. It sounds like it's fret buzz to my ears. It doesn't sound like its a sympathetic buzz from a loose part or the truss rod or anything (though I guess that could still be a possibility.)

I'm going to have to take it back to the tech and see what can be done. It's driving me crazy because this is my main player. Thanks for all the help and ideas guys! If you think of anything else it could be or other things I can check, please let me know!

[DalyTek]

UPDATE:

I just got back from the tech. He said that the neck is shifting/twisting. He says it's due to the wood not being allowed to properly cure before they (Gibson) used it, coupled with the changes in temperature and humidity, and the fact that I have a swamp cooler on my house. There is a hump right about where the neck/body joint is (or just after it) he says. My eyes can't see it. I have tried sighting up and down the neck from both ends. I have seen guitars with a twist in the neck before, but I don't see if on this one.

He offered to re-level the fretboard, but he says he is unsure how long it will hold up for. If the neck is still changing, it will just happen again as it continues to change until it gets done. He said I will eventually run out of fret material at that point as well. I opted not to have the level done again, as it was going to cost me. He said the best fix would be to pull the frets, plane the fretboard, install new frets and then do the level & crown.

I think I am going to go that route. I really love this guitar, and do not want to let it go, but I need it to play like it should. If I am going to refret it, I want to install stainless steel frets, and he recommended the tall & wide fretwire. I will need to supply my own fret wire though, so I am looking at the tall & wide wire on Stew Mac. I think I will order the wire tonight just to have it on hand ready to go, while I save up for the labor.

[john.w.lawson]

" swamp cooler " Aha, I've seen those here but my IN mind still likes ac Oh DT caught a 50 and 1/2 inch rattler this summer...God it must have been hot where you are it was 110 for ever up here. Had the buzzing on a guitar e and a string and just changed the string and no more buzzing,,Sorry about your neck.

[DalyTek]

Yeah, it got pretty hot as usual, but we had a very humid "monsoon season" this year, which I'm sure did NOT help the situation.
I have had many rattlers in the yard this year, as recently as last night, but they were all young ones. One only had a button, no rattles!

The tech suggested I go with jumbo fret wire in a nice tall variety. I opted that if I am going to refret this guitar I'm going with stainless steel frets.
So I ordered myself 6 feet of nice tall & wide SS fret wire, and am in the process of saving some funds for the refret.

The tech is going to charge me $200 for the refret, level, crown, polish & full setup. Since he has worked on this guitar recently and I am supplying my own fret wire, he is charging me less than he usually charges.
Does this sound like a reasonable price for the labor?

[moku]

UPDATE:

I just got back from the tech. He said that the neck is shifting/twisting. He says it's due to the wood not being allowed to properly cure before they (Gibson) used it, coupled with the changes in temperature and humidity, and the fact that I have a swamp cooler on my house. There is a hump right about where the neck/body joint is (or just after it) he says. My eyes can't see it. I have tried sighting up and down the neck from both ends. I have seen guitars with a twist in the neck before, but I don't see if on this one.

He offered to re-level the fretboard, but he says he is unsure how long it will hold up for. If the neck is still changing, it will just happen again as it continues to change until it gets done. He said I will eventually run out of fret material at that point as well. I opted not to have the level done again, as it was going to cost me. He said the best fix would be to pull the frets, plane the fretboard, install new frets and then do the level & crown.

I think I am going to go that route. I really love this guitar, and do not want to let it go, but I need it to play like it should. If I am going to refret it, I want to install stainless steel frets, and he recommended the tall & wide fretwire. I will need to supply my own fret wire though, so I am looking at the tall & wide wire on Stew Mac. I think I will order the wire tonight just to have it on hand ready to go, while I save up for the labor.

doesn't make sense. how would planing the fretboard andd refretting solve the problem of the wood not "properly cured"--especially when it will "continue to change"? i would take it to another tech. for second opinion (without telling the 2nd tech the supposed problem). a hump where the body/neck joins: so the fret on the low E is raised down there. if that's truly the problem it should be an easy fix. and it may last longer than you think.

don't remember if you just got the guitar or not (and i'm too lazy to go back to the first post). but if you just got the guitar, then i would buy the humidity/temp change effecting your guitar. but if you've had it for a while then his theory of the swamp cooler effecting it sounds like bs.

if you were close to me i'd fix that buzzing for fun/free. take it to another tech.

[moku]

as for the price, that's bs as well. $200 usually includes the fret wires. TAKE IT TO ANOTHER LUTHIER.

and the fact that he didn't tell you the problem the first time when he worked on it makes his suggestion even more suspicious.

[j2379]

how old is it, if the wood wasnt cured right or its twisting call gibson. and if you are going to fix it i would think you should let it cure completely before having any work done. if its just a shitty piece of wood it will continue to twist w tension on it. hold down the 1st and last fret each string make note of the heights at different frets, the string will always make a straight line. should be pretty easy to tell whats going on.

[DalyTek]

doesn't make sense. how would planing the fretboard andd refretting solve the problem of the wood not "properly cured"--especially when it will "continue to change"? i would take it to another tech. for second opinion (without telling the 2nd tech the supposed problem). a hump where the body/neck joins: so the fret on the low E is raised down there. if that's truly the problem it should be an easy fix. and it may last longer than you think.

don't remember if you just got the guitar or not (and i'm too lazy to go back to the first post). but if you just got the guitar, then i would buy the humidity/temp change effecting your guitar. but if you've had it for a while then his theory of the swamp cooler effecting it sounds like bs.

if you were close to me i'd fix that buzzing for fun/free. take it to another tech.

Well, to be honest, I cant find find anything wrong. I can't see the hump, and I definitely do not see any twisting. My limited skills and tools tell me everything is perfect. How would that be an easy fix? What would need to be done? I did just get the guitar, at the end of August.

as for the price, that's bs as well. $200 usually includes the fret wires. TAKE IT TO ANOTHER LUTHIER.

and the fact that he didn't tell you the problem the first time when he worked on it makes his suggestion even more suspicious.

Well, his price is usually higher than that, and usually does include the fret wire, but because I want SS frets, I am supplying it myself.

how old is it, if the wood wasnt cured right or its twisting call gibson. and if you are going to fix it i would think you should let it cure completely before having any work done. if its just a shitty piece of wood it will continue to twist w tension on it. hold down the 1st and last fret each string make note of the heights at different frets, the string will always make a straight line. should be pretty easy to tell whats going on.

It's a 2005 model. I don't think Gibson will want to do anything about it since I bought it second hand online. I'll try to get some measurements at each fret if I can and let you guys know.

[moku]

the reason it buzzes all the way up and down the neck on the low E is b'cuz a fret or frets are a tad higher near the 24th fret. this means you have to locate the fret(s) and level it. that's what i mean it's easy. since we can see/check your guitar, seriously, take it to another tech or get an opinion from another player near you.

[DalyTek]

In essence, though, you are reinforcing what the tech was telling me. He is telling me that this "shifting" or "twisting" in the neck is causing a little lump just after where the neck meets the body, at the last few frets. (Remember, this is an SG, so it's a 22-fret guitar and the neck/body joint is way at the very end of the neck.)

He told me when he did the work that the last few frets were a little high and he had to bring them down, and that's really common on guitars. He did not tell me anything about the neck twisting or the wood not being properly cured at that time. That part really bugs me. I am going to get a second opinion when I can, I just need to find the right guy to do it.

[j2379]

could just be an SG, is it a 61 reissue type? they had the smaller neck joint and those necks move around a lot especially with the small 60's slim taper neck. mahogany necks also arent as stable as maple, but shouldnt be that bad. i would have a tech check the neck joint to make sure its not shifting from there. if you don't have a lot of experience w SG's could also be that, SGs are some of the most finicky guitars ever.

In essence, though, you are reinforcing what the tech was telling me. He is telling me that this "shifting" or "twisting" in the neck is causing a little lump just after where the neck meets the body, at the last few frets. (Remember, this is an SG, so it's a 22-fret guitar and the neck/body joint is way at the very end of the neck.)

He told me when he did the work that the last few frets were a little high and he had to bring them down, and that's really common on guitars. He did not tell me anything about the neck twisting or the wood not being properly cured at that time. That part really bugs me. I am going to get a second opinion when I can, I just need to find the right guy to do it.

[horns666]

It could be "rising tongue" where the end of the board is gradually kicking up. A fret rocker may not detect it, but you would see it when sighting down the edge of the board. It is more common on bolties, but does happen on set neck or neck thru guitars as well.

Yes..."Rising Tongue" was exactly what I was thinkin'.

Axe..just bought a "Rising Tongue" graphic..it's awesome!! It needs a Cockdragon tho..IMO!

[DalyTek]

could just be an SG, is it a 61 reissue type? they had the smaller neck joint and those necks move around a lot especially with the small 60's slim taper neck. mahogany necks also arent as stable as maple, but shouldnt be that bad. i would have a tech check the neck joint to make sure its not shifting from there. if you don't have a lot of experience w SG's could also be that, SGs are some of the most finicky guitars ever.

No, this one is the SG Platinum. It's got a thick 50's neck. I am meeting with another tech this weekend who is going to go over the guitar with me and we're going to find the problem. He's going to help mediagnose and repair the issue(s) and teach me the basics of the art of fret work along the way. We will likely be refretting the guitar with Stainless Steel frets too, just cause I want them. Whatever the issue is, I'm sure we will find and remedy it, and I will be sure to post the results back here.