‘86 Charvel Model 4

[CaptNasty]

Ran into an opportunity to get my hands on a 1986 Charvel Model 4. Ferrari Red, H-S-S Jackson branded pups, Kahler tremolo, pointy headstock, three knobs and three pickup switches. Serial # 246055. It plays great. Not at all like my sons Charvel GG, more like a Jackson.

The thing is absolutely immaculate. No dings, scratches or swirls and has the original tweed case which looks like it is brand new. Single owner guitar. Owner bought it to learn to play and it ended up sitting in the case in his closet for 33 years. Given the condition I actually believe him. It looks like it just came out of the factory.

The guy is asking $650 firm. I am tempted. What do you guys think of that price?

[Number Of The Priest]

Bear in mind that all my replies on JCF regarding pricing and value are colored by my reputation as a deal hunter and being reasonably knowledgeable about market prices for metal guitars being sold in Canada. This reply will be no different.

I realize you say the seller is firm on USD$650, but USD$500 maximum would be my top offer, and even at that price I'd have to REALLY want the guitar. I believe you when you say it's mint and plays great.

USD$650 is more in line with my own mental "personal blue book" value for a used Model 5 or used Model 6, but not a Model 1-thru-4. Even then, I passed on a 1986 Model 6 for CAD$500 (about USD$400). Call me a crazy cheapskate if you want, but I don't regret not buying that guitar. Here's the story: https://www.jcfonline.com/threads/15...p-paint-scheme

Out of eBay's most recent Sold Listings for Model 4s, this one (https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Charvel-Jack...QAAOSwGHJaiZOE) was the most expensive at USD$899. I feel like someone really wanted it if they're willing to pay USD$900 for a Japanese guitar which is getting within pricing territory for American-made Jacksons and Charvels. And I'm not disparaging Japanese Jacksons/Charvels. Most of my collection is Japanese-made guitars.

Summary: At the end of the day, it's up to you if you want to spend the money. No doubt it's a killer guitar in mint shape but it's a bit more expensive than it should warrant.

[CaptNasty]

Thanks for the response. I had a feeling in my gut that this was the case. I know the market for MIA Jackson’s really well. Import Charvels, I am fairly clueless.

I may counter and see how firm the price actually is. Now I have some idea of where I actually want to end up. Thank you.

[Razor]

Hell, when I was paying close attention to Charvel's a nice Model 4 with a JT-6 would bring 400 bucks consistently. The Kahler hurts it's value a little bit IMHO. Being super clean, but having a Kahler for me makes it a 400 buck guitar. I agree with NOTP that 650 bucks is Model 6 territory.

I'm a deal hunter like NOTP. Considering it has a Kahler I'd be at $500.00 absolute tops myself, and that's only if I couldn't live without it.

[Hired Goon]

On the other hand, if it's in perfect shape you might think about buying it. It's not every day you come across one that isn't blemished in some way and even if you paid a couple hundred more than some other ones out there, chances are those others have some dings on them. You might regret letting this one get away. Personally I'd pay more for a top level specimen. I mean who doesn't like a deal but at the end of the day, what's a couple of hundred bucks in your lifetime earnings.

[paranoid]

A new guitar of that quality with a tweed case would be more then $650.00 and you would have to pay sales tax if bought in a place were you could try it before buying. If it is really something you want, go for it. don't let forum lurkers that you do not know make your decision.

[Razor]

A new guitar of that quality with a tweed case would be more then $650.00 and you would have to pay sales tax if bought in a place were you could try it before buying. If it is really something you want, go for it. don't let forum lurkers that you do not know make your decision.

Hell, if the OP has a hard on to over pay for a Charvel I have a minty Model 2 with an old school Made in Germany Floyd and Dunlop dual design Straplocks that I'll let go for a paltry 800 bucks...!!! Yes, I am being facetious.




Paying 650 bucks for a Model 4 is a straight up premium, especially considering it has a Kahler! Hell, you can buy an old school USA Jackson with Kahler for 2 or 3 hundred bucks more if you're patient and bide your time.

It's the OP's money, but if it were me I'd be biding my time waiting on a more reasonable deal to come along.

[Number Of The Priest]

A new guitar of that quality with a tweed case would be more then $650.00 and you would have to pay sales tax if bought in a place were you could try it before buying. If it is really something you want, go for it. don't let forum lurkers that you do not know make your decision.

I resemble that remark about being a forum lurker!

The used guitar market plays by a completely different set of rules (pricing and otherwise) compared to the new guitar market. I agree with you that objectively it's basically impossible these days to find a comparable new Japanese guitar in a retail store for USD$650. Such a guitar would sell like hotcakes today, in a sea of Indonesian-made guitars that sell for the same amount. But on the used market, USD$650 for a Model 4 (regardless of condition) is generally on the very high side, based on market value. The used market is a fickle, sometimes unpredictable place where objective evaluations of a guitar don't always apply.

I think everyone in this thread has been fair in their assessments. Nobody is disparaging this shining example of a pristine-condition Model 4. We're just weighing its USD$650 price against readily-available, easily-observable information: pricing trends in the used market for Charvel Model Series guitars. And the trend is that USD$650 is high.

At the end of the day, if CaptNasty is happy spending USD$650 for the guitar, all the more power to him because it's an awesome guitar in mint condition. If CaptNasty decides it is too expensive and doesn't buy the guitar, we're equally happy for him. The point of this thread is pricing education and sharing knowledge about pricing for the OP to make an informed decision based on as many facts given to him as possible.

I just remembered I have certain pages of the Vintage Guitar Magazine Price Guide 2016 saved on my cellphone from when I was browsing at a bookstore in 2016 and wanted to capture pages that were relevant to me (Jackson, Charvel, and Ibanez). Here is the Charvel page: https://i.imgur.com/SWq0rA3.jpg

I admit it's a bit blurry to read, so I'll transcribe verbatim the paragraph for the Model 4:

Model 4/4A
1986-1988. As Model 2, but with 1 regular humbucker and 2 stacked humbuckers (no pickguard), active electronics, dots in '86, shark-fin inlays after. Model 4A has 2 regular humbuckers and dot markers.

Excellent condition price range: $450 to $575.

(The funny thing is that I'm not sure they did their fact-checking, because there's no Model 4A.)

At the bottom of the page reads:

The Vintage Guitar Price Guide shows low to high values for items in all-original excellent condition, and, where applicable, with original case or cover.

I haven't read the pages for "classic/desirable" guitars like Fenders/Gibsons, nor am I knowledgeable about the used market for those kinds of guitars, so I can't say whether I believe the magazine is reasonably accurate on the whole. However, for metal guitars, I personally think Vintage Guitar Magazine prices metal guitars slightly high. (A good thing for sellers, I suppose?) If you share my view that the magazine's Model 4 listed value of $575 is already on the generous side, then USD$650 for CaptNasty's Model 4 is inflated beyond what is already considered generous.

Coincidentally, the magazine page evaluates the Model 6 at $650... precisely in line with my first reply in this thread.

[Axewielder]

I've overpaid for guitars many, many times and have few regrets. If you usually keep your guitars for years and years as opposed to always selling them a month later, then $100 isn't a big deal. It's not clear if this is a local deal, but I don't mind kicking in a bit more when I can go hands-on with the guitar before shelling out the cash. Also I like single-owner case queens a LOT. All that said it still is a buyer's market, so don't be a sucker either!

[CaptNasty]

Thanks again to everyone who responded. I think NotP summed it up pretty well with:

...
At the end of the day, if CaptNasty is happy spending USD$650 for the guitar, all the more power to him because it's an awesome guitar in mint condition. If CaptNasty decides it is too expensive and doesn't buy the guitar, we're equally happy for him. The point of this thread is pricing education and sharing knowledge about pricing for the OP to make an informed decision based on as many facts given to him as possible.
...

Good things to consider both pro and con. While I really have been GASing for a Red guitar lately, $650 is hard to swallow given the used Model 4 market as pointed out by NotP and Razor.

On the other hand, this Model 4 might just prevent me from doing a Custom Select to build out a “Jack Butler”ish Soloist (Yes, I know the JB guitar was a bolt on and reports are unclear of whether it was a Charvel or a Jackson. I am not looking for an exact replica, more of an “inspired by” that has a lot of my own tweaks to it). It is a big swing from $650 for this Model 4 to probably somewhere around $3800-$3900 for a CS Soloist. This leads me to a thought process more along the lines of what AxeWielder, paranoid and Goon had to say. Spending the $650 will most likely save me $3150 or more.

I am holding at the moment, did not get it today. Still thinking about it.

[Number Of The Priest]

I am holding at the moment, did not get it today. Still thinking about it.

The silver lining is that, at $650, it's difficult to imagine anyone going to swoop in and buy it before you get a chance to decide. Most likely the guitar will still be waiting around for you (or someone else) to really want it.

If this Model 4 were half the price (which is more reasonable and in line with typical pricing), you could probably justify affording both this AND your Custom Select.

[toejam]

The Kahler definitely brings its value down. With a Floyd, it would be worth a little more, still probably no more than $600 at the most, IMO.