David vs Goliath or suicide?

[SEEGERMANY]

Should have stuck with the purple finish. It was killer!

[Ben...]

Sweet guitar! I've always wanted to try a 27 fret guitar.

[DocNrock]

That is cool.

[tcwil8]

Checking out their site, this one had me drooling.

http://www.shamray.ru/show.php?id=852&lang=en

[Dmitry Sushkov]

Here is english discussion at our forum:

http://theguitarcustomshop.com/index...iewtopic&t=594

Sweet guitar! I've always wanted to try a 27 fret guitar.

Client actually doesn't wanted a mahogany guitar, he has paid only for experiment. And he will leave guitar in our shop for sale. May be Michael Walker will post it on ebay.

[Dmitry Sushkov]

ummmm, I looked at their site - what can you only buy custom shop builds?

Yep! Shamray is a Custom Shop only.

[KyuzoGuitarist]

at least!
they finished!
this saturday will be the battle!
One winner and one loser!
vs

[Newc]

some technical improvements (one piece body, jackplateless construction, less than five glueings on a headstock, and real hard to explain trick with 3piece neck)

Ok, how is a body made of 1 continuous piece of wood supposedly tonally better than the same size and shape body made of 3 pieces doweled and glued together tightly?

Also, what's this about no jackplate? Direct-mounted output jack? Has there ever been any solid evidence that the miniscule amount of wood removed for a Strat-style plate or even a Jackson football plate has any effect on tone?

And how does a headstock affect the tone if it has 5 laminates vs 3 or 4? Or even 2?


There seems to be some assumption floating around the general population that gluing wood for a guitar is the same as gluing a piece of wood to the chipped corner of a dining table or some other half-ass method of repair.

[KyuzoGuitarist]

well, they think they know better

[WarPig]

Ok, I'm not an acoustic engineer, but I've read some interesting stuff (like the guy that measured sonic vibrations in an Explorer, and determined that the design actually *dampens* sustain ever so slightly because of its asymmetrical shape). And I have my own theories as to why/why not laminates, glue, etc.

Short version: a single piece of wood will resonate "cleaner" than the same wood with glue joints.

"But", you say, "my 'X' guitar has a bolt-on neck, and three-piece body, and it sounds fantastic!".

Of course it does: that's why there are luthiers. Like fine cabinetmakers and carpenters, they know about wood - its tonal characteristics, what woods sound good when combined, and what kind of "balancing act" it takes to make a great instrument.

Did someone say "I have a cheap POS that sounds as good as a Custom Shop"?

Yep. Even a blind pig finds a truffle sometimes. I have a plywood-body, off-brand that has a finish at least 1/16" thick, who-knows-what Chinese factory pups, and it *does* sound great - under the right conditions for that particular guitar :-)

But, I stray from my topic "Which is 'better' sonically: solid or glued". The answer (to me) is neither is better or worse. It depends more on *personal* preferences and perceptions: "Crap! I don't want no stinkin' bolt-on! Only neck-thru for me!" vs. "Seven-layer laminate neck with three-piece body capped with tone wood".

It also depends on the builder (be it master luthier, computer-controlled machine or six-year-old Chinese child), and adherence to some common-sense good quality practices (balsa does not make a good neck or body).

These debates can be fun on a forum or while waxing philosophically, but the bottom line is, if the guitar looks good to you, sounds good to you, feels right to you and makes you happy when you play it, it doesn't really matter about glue joints, wood types and finish thicknesses.

Now, could you imaging how long and boring the long version would have been?

It will be cool to see how the Shamwow stacks up against the Jackson...

[Dmitry Sushkov]

Ok, I'm not an acoustic engineer, but I've read some interesting stuff (like the guy that measured sonic vibrations in an Explorer, and determined that the design actually *dampens* sustain ever so slightly because of its asymmetrical shape). And I have my own theories as to why/why not laminates, glue, etc.

Short version: a single piece of wood will resonate "cleaner" than the same wood with glue joints.

"But", you say, "my 'X' guitar has a bolt-on neck, and three-piece body, and it sounds fantastic!".

Of course it does: that's why there are luthiers. Like fine cabinetmakers and carpenters, they know about wood - its tonal characteristics, what woods sound good when combined, and what kind of "balancing act" it takes to make a great instrument.

Did someone say "I have a cheap POS that sounds as good as a Custom Shop"?

Yep. Even a blind pig finds a truffle sometimes. I have a plywood-body, off-brand that has a finish at least 1/16" thick, who-knows-what Chinese factory pups, and it *does* sound great - under the right conditions for that particular guitar :-)

But, I stray from my topic "Which is 'better' sonically: solid or glued". The answer (to me) is neither is better or worse. It depends more on *personal* preferences and perceptions: "Crap! I don't want no stinkin' bolt-on! Only neck-thru for me!" vs. "Seven-layer laminate neck with three-piece body capped with tone wood".

It also depends on the builder (be it master luthier, computer-controlled machine or six-year-old Chinese child), and adherence to some common-sense good quality practices (balsa does not make a good neck or body).

These debates can be fun on a forum or while waxing philosophically, but the bottom line is, if the guitar looks good to you, sounds good to you, feels right to you and makes you happy when you play it, it doesn't really matter about glue joints, wood types and finish thicknesses.

Now, could you imaging how long and boring the long version would have been?

It will be cool to see how the Shamwow stacks up against the Jackson...

I've also read that research about electric guitars vibrations. From beginning that research was sponsored by Gibson. Tell me why Gibson was discontinued their donations? Because there wasn't any result! Guys planned to research pickups but all research was stopped...

About thread subject. That's it. Customer picked guitar from shop and this weekend will meet KyuzoGuitarist, the owner of original Jackson masterbuilt, and will compare their beauties.

Note, order was submitted march 21 this year. It was only 4 months built time, most of them we waited some parts from the US and Canada.

[zeegler]

I still say that for the most part, glue joints, and construction methods have much less effect on the sound of a solid body electric than pickups and electronics do. In this case, nitpicking over a couple of glue joints on the headstock etc. is just ridiculous. We're not talking about a thick layer of glue separating two pieces of wood here. The fact is, in a properly done glue joint, there is very little glue at all.

[Dmitry Sushkov]

I still say that for the most part, glue joints, and construction methods have much less effect on the sound of a solid body electric than pickups and electronics do. In this case, nitpicking over a couple of glue joints on the headstock etc. is just ridiculous. We're not talking about a thick layer of glue separating two pieces of wood here. The fact is, in a properly done glue joint, there is very little glue at all.

You probably did not understand. The reason when we buy any expensive thing - we're thinking that that thing made from highest quality materials and without economy on materials. If you have money for very expensive oak table, will you buy it if you will find that he is laminated from thin wood pieces? NO!

[Grandturk]

I still say that for the most part, glue joints, and construction methods have much less effect on the sound of a solid body electric than pickups and electronics do. In this case, nitpicking over a couple of glue joints on the headstock etc. is just ridiculous. We're not talking about a thick layer of glue separating two pieces of wood here. The fact is, in a properly done glue joint, there is very little glue at all.

Agree with a lot of this - but I think the wood has a primary tone, that's different from other wood - i.e. Alder vs. Ash. Byond that, whether its two or three pieces - done right, I don't think it matters.

[Hellbat]

Well, if there's one thing the Russians know better than anybody it's wood bonding techniques. Lavochkin, Yakovlev, and MiG all built fighters well into WW2 using Russian birch plywood, not just because of the scarcity of metals but because in general it was stronger and more resistant to bullet damage than steel or aluminum of an equivalent weight.