If you love Gibsons..then dont read this thread!

[Bengal65]

Bengal65 are you saying the Kalamzoo LPs suck?I like what I 've seen over the years.
The Kalamazoo plant closed in 79 IIRC and they turned out some killer guitars.
Always did like the bigger headstock LPs

Absolutely not. Did I say Kalamazoo LP's suck? I'm sorry you took it that way. No, I have had many Zoo LP's in the past. I still own a ES-335, ES-355, and a Byrdland made in MI. I actually had and owned for quite a few years, a '73 LPC, that was really nice, but had a 5 piece maple top! It looked like a butcher block table under the sunburst. My Zoo, ES-335 is a great guitar, but used some really wide grain maple. Not choice by any means. I also owned a Cherry sunburst '76 Std. that was my gigging axe for a long time. It had a 4 piece maple top. I'm just saying, some of the cosmetics weren't that good back then. With the vintage craze took off, Nashville Gibson started paying attention to the construction methods they used back in the 50's and 60's and started using more visually appealing and period correct woods and construction. Flame tops (maybe a little overkill here), 2 - piece maple tops, long tendon's etc.

[MetalMedal II]

The Kalamazoo plant was open at least into 1983, but I don't know if they were making LPs specifically there.

[straycat]

Bengal65 are you saying the Kalamzoo LPs suck?I like what I 've seen over the years.
The Kalamazoo plant closed in 79 IIRC and they turned out some killer guitars.
Always did like the bigger headstock LPs

[Axewielder]

You'd be surprised to see what customers will do:ROTF:. Sure some guitars will slip by that are not setup properly at the factory and most GC's don't have in-house luthiers setting up guitars. I'm in know way defending Gibson, as I think their Nitro cellulose lacquer finishes have been substandard for what they charge you for these instruments. Ever since I started looking at "new" Gibson's in '96, I have noticed a consistancy to have "orange peel" in most of their finishes and most likely the cause is not spending the time in the buffing stage. Looks like they rush it through to me. The wood work and fit seems to be on par. The quality of wood and variety of wood is definitely better over the Kalamazoo factory for the most part IMO.

I've seen the orange peel, and am always shocked. I was even more shocked to hear a satisfied customer friend of mine say it "gives it character". Wow.

I think the deer-in-the-headlights GC sales dudes are grasping for straws to explain to confused customers why these high dollar guits are so out of whack. Go on, blame it on the kids. It's impossible to disprove.

[Bengal65]

Are the kids coming into the GC with screwdrivers and allen wrenches? Those intonation screws are hard to move with your fingers. Just playing Devil's Advocate a bit...my suspicion is they come from the factory buggered up quite often (I'm sure there are exceptions).

You'd be surprised to see what customers will do:ROTF:. Sure some guitars will slip by that are not setup properly at the factory and most GC's don't have in-house luthiers setting up guitars. I'm in know way defending Gibson, as I think their Nitro cellulose lacquer finishes have been substandard for what they charge you for these instruments. Ever since I started looking at "new" Gibson's in '96, I have noticed a consistancy to have "orange peel" in most of their finishes and most likely the cause is not spending the time in the buffing stage. Looks like they rush it through to me. The wood work and fit seems to be on par. The quality of wood and variety of wood is definitely better over the Kalamazoo factory for the most part IMO.

[Axewielder]

Are the kids coming into the GC with screwdrivers and allen wrenches? Those intonation screws are hard to move with your fingers. Just playing Devil's Advocate a bit...my suspicion is they come from the factory buggered up quite often (I'm sure there are exceptions).

[Robert Burns]

You mean to tell me you actually went back and GOT HER?! Aw, you were SO CLOSE!

Seriously, though, I know what you're saying. The current Gibsons seem to be total shite. I DO know, however, that GC is rife with little shitheads who like to go around a totally f#&* up guitars, just to be pricks. I've witnessed it, firsthand, so I wouldn't exactly blame Gibson for the setup woes. Those guitars pass through the hands of so many a-holes before it reaches yours, it's not even funny. GC is the McDonalds of music stores, and don't give a rat's ass about pride in their work and gear. It's all about the buck.......Still, current Gibbies seem to suck.

Yep...dammit, your right! She would have found me though...

[Robert Burns]

Well, some of these statements are a little overly generalistic. Regarding GC, I've had good experience with Gibsons (ONLY) when the guitar is removed from a factory box. The store manager told me himself, that all and not just Gibson's get messed with in the store. In addition, I had another GC store manager tell me the same thing. Whenever I drop in, they have to go in the back and get me a guitar to try in a factory sealed box. They open it in front of me. The Gibson Custom Shop and Historic boxes have a yellow label seal on each end. I don't know about the lower end Gibson's having the same seal however. I think you may have been playing some guitars that have been messed with. Just my opinion. This is why I avoid GC like the plague. I bet if you went into a store like Matt's as an example, and tried a few, they would be closer to spot on.

I knew i would be hearing from you! And i see your point..the 4 i tried
today could have been messed with for a year for all i know? Ive played
some smooth good playing LP's at Bizarre Guitar, but then i know these
have been set up, by mike..and given some attention... it just struck me
today, that they were sooo bad. Your right..im over-generalizing..

[Bengal65]

Well, some of these statements are a little overly generalistic. Regarding GC, I've had good experience with Gibsons (ONLY) when the guitar is removed from a factory box. The store manager told me himself, that all and not just Gibson's get messed with in the store. In addition, I had another GC store manager tell me the same thing. Whenever I drop in, they have to go in the back and get me a guitar to try in a factory sealed box. They open it in front of me. The Gibson Custom Shop and Historic boxes have a yellow label seal on each end. I don't know about the lower end Gibson's having the same seal however. I think you may have been playing some guitars that have been messed with. Just my opinion. This is why I avoid GC like the plague. I bet if you went into a store like Matt's as an example, and tried a few, they would be closer to spot on.

[Racerx2k]

Of course...just my opinion, but today i dropped the wife off for an hour
to run some errands...

You mean to tell me you actually went back and GOT HER?! Aw, you were SO CLOSE!

Seriously, though, I know what you're saying. The current Gibsons seem to be total shite. I DO know, however, that GC is rife with little shitheads who like to go around a totally f#&* up guitars, just to be pricks. I've witnessed it, firsthand, so I wouldn't exactly blame Gibson for the setup woes. Those guitars pass through the hands of so many a-holes before it reaches yours, it's not even funny. GC is the McDonalds of music stores, and don't give a rat's ass about pride in their work and gear. It's all about the buck.......Still, current Gibbies seem to suck.

[S-man]

It's sad.

[Robert Burns]

Of course...just my opinion, but today i dropped the wife off for an hour
to run some errands...and i was only 1/2 mile from a GC i dont usually get
to go to.. So going into the "ritz" upper end snooty room...i decide to
check out some of the "upper" stuff. I start to grab a $1200 SG...but
then i see a $2100.00 SG, so i grab it first.. out of tune. No biggie..tune
it, and then try to play.... my ears start to freak out, as all of my senses
tell me "This is an OLP or something? Brownsville"? Either way POS!!
After playing a Flying V..$1700.00.. LP standard $2499.00... i put
all of them back on the hangers, and walk out. Pure turds...all 4 of them!
Now tell me how an $1700.00 Gibson leaves the factory completely
out of intonation... and any hint of a set up? The only LP's that are close to a USA Jackson, Charvel, or Ibanez Jem..are the $4200.00 ones!
Sorry for the rant... but the only axe that impressed me was a used
Suhr.. for $2K.. Easily better than any Gibson under $3K today anyway...
Maybe just the strings...and them being out of whack...but they just sucked!