An Honest Question

[cdwillis]

The difference in quality between Korean and Japanese guitars is getting smaller and smaller. It's the Chinese and Indonesian shit you gotta watch out for.

[sakeido]

I believe sakeido is saying Jackson ought to bring back the USA "Student" models. Like a USA Soloist and a Dinky with no binding, just dot inlays, plain finishes, etc. so people can get a USA quality axe without paying for all the upgraded cosmetics.

Yes! Thats it! Somebody gets it!

[Axewielder]

No problem, Jackson will make you a student model if you want with no binding, dot inlays, and a plain finish. However, those customizations will qualify it for Masterbuilt pricing.

[thetroy]

zing

[thetroy]

The difference in quality between Korean and Japanese guitars is getting smaller and smaller. It's the Chinese and Indonesian shit you gotta watch out for.

The Chinese are getting better too. After I setup my SX (including polishing the frets - they were really rough) it plays great. It's been my main guitar for over a year now.

[pro-fusion]

Stepping back for a moment, it's kind of interesting how much emotion this topic brings out in people.

My take: both Jackson and ESP make some great guitars and some crap, both companies make boneheaded product moves occasionally, and both companies' custom shops are overpriced.

Part of the difficulty in this thread seems to be comparing "apples to apples", since the companies have different product differentiation strategies. Also, ESP only exports a small percentage of its overall line to the USA. Here's a rough comparison:

LTD 50 = Jackson JS
LTD x00 = X, MG, and Pro series
LTD 1000 = Upper-level Pro and signature models
ESP Standard Series = Jackson USA Select
ESP Custom = Jackson USA Custom Shop

Notice how the comparisons aren't perfect. The Jackson USA Selects are built in the same shop and by the same people as the Customs, while ESP Standards are built (AFAIK) alongside the Edwards guitars in a different Japanese shop than the ESP customs. Also notice how ESP's low-end LTD product lines are segmented differently than Jackson's. ESP is able to bundle more features on the LTDs because they are made at lower cost in Korea--the quality difference is subjective, and certainly varies from instrument to instrument.

Also, regardless of history, both companies rely primarily on designs that they have using for a long time.

Me, I have Jacksons and an old ESP that I cherish. There is room for both.

[Axewielder]

ESP and Ibanez still make some great guitars, but I do feel like their high-end stuff isn't quite as good as when they had their US custom shops going. The good ol' USA still makes the best guitars in the world, and you really can't take that away from us. Cars and stereos and computers and clothes....not so much.

[hippietim]

They have nothing original aside from those injection-molded plastic Batgirl models.

Yes but Jackson created the Warrior which is perhaps the dorkiest production guitar in history.

[drockilles]

Yes but Jackson created the Warrior which is perhaps the dorkiest production guitar in history.

It's funny that in the past you really never saw any bands playing Warriors, but now that Ibanez has their version of it it's showing up a lot more. Dino from Divine Heresy, Oli Herbert from All that Remains, and the dude from Necrophagist are all playing that Ibanez model now.

[sakeido]

ESP and Ibanez still make some great guitars, but I do feel like their high-end stuff isn't quite as good as when they had their US custom shops going. The good ol' USA still makes the best guitars in the world, and you really can't take that away from us. Cars and stereos and computers and clothes....not so much.

This isn't a valid argument at all. You are telling me there is a quality that is totally unique to America and Americans that makes it so that they can make a better guitar than anyone else in the world? That is patently ridiculous.
Look at new Gibsons that cost even more money than USA Jacksons and notice glue seeping out around the neck joint, improperly filed nuts, crappy fret jobs, flaws in the binding, uneven finishes, etc. as my example.
A guitar is not better simply because it was made in the US. This xenophobic viewpoint you have here is astounding for its backwardness and complete lack of grounding in any real fact.

Also pointing out some inaccuracies here: neither of them have ever had a USA custom shop open to the public. Ibanez operates one in LA, but you need to be endorsed to get a guitar from them which is too bad because they make some of the nicest player's guitars I have ever seen.

[anuske9]

This isn't a valid argument at all. You are telling me there is a quality that is totally unique to America and Americans that makes it so that they can make a better guitar than anyone else in the world? That is patently ridiculous.
Look at new Gibsons that cost even more money than USA Jacksons and notice glue seeping out around the neck joint, improperly filed nuts, crappy fret jobs, flaws in the binding, uneven finishes, etc. as my example.
A guitar is not better simply because it was made in the US. This xenophobic viewpoint you have here is astounding for its backwardness and complete lack of grounding in any real fact.

You can't deny that some countries do hold a reputation for making certain quality products though, but in the end, it's company specific and you have to believe that if a Japanese-based guitar maker deserves respect, they'll get it.

[hippietim]

It's funny that in the past you really never saw any bands playing Warriors, but now that Ibanez has their version of it it's showing up a lot more. Dino from Divine Heresy, Oli Herbert from All that Remains, and the dude from Necrophagist are all playing that Ibanez model now.

Ibanez says "you want dorky, we can do dorky too!"

[Shawn Lutz]

I'm not loyal to any single brand. ESP makes some great playing/sounding guitars just as Jackson, Fender, Gibson, Ibanez, GMW, Anderson, Suhr.

The name on the headstock doesn't matter....just as the above mentioned co's can make killer guitars...they also let a few shabby ones slip through the cracks. Would I rather play a bunk Jackson or a killer ESP...I'd take the best player every time

[Axewielder]

You are telling me there is a quality that is totally unique to America and Americans that makes it so that they can make a better guitar than anyone else in the world?

Yeah, it's called "zazz". And we got it.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "xenophobic viewpoint", so I'm going to take that as a sign of disrespect.

[sakeido]

You can't deny that some countries do hold a reputation for making certain quality products though, but in the end, it's company specific and you have to believe that if a Japanese-based guitar maker deserves respect, they'll get it.

True on both points (with regards to countries and companies). There are certainly some countries that churn out poor quality axes (in my experience). But the longer a country makes guitars, it seems the better and better they get. The Rondos from Korea are supposed to be getting to be great guitars for the money now. I can't vouch for that personally but the bang for your buck is supposed to fantastic with those things.

The real problem is that when a company really does deserve some respect - like ESP does - people won't give it, which is really too bad.