ESP taking the p*ss

[neilli]

This might be old news, but has anyone else seen the inlays on this?:
http://www.espguitars.com/images/gal...zon_mm_big.jpg
Look familiar?
Cheers
Ian

[slayer]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

Is that a New Model? Jack.

[Newc]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

Maple board with ebony fins.
Does someone at Jackson own a share in ESP!?

Newc

[WarEnsemble]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

It's a custom guitar, the point being that you can get whatever inlays you want. Matt's Music obviously had the cash to order a Horizon with sharkfins and ESP built it for them. I don't think Jackson would turn down a customer ready to pay a couple thousand for a custom that had ESP's flag inlays. And doesn't the RR LTD have the same inlays as Gibson's custom line?

[Newc]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

Is that a Matt's Music Custom? I saw no branding on the link or photo, and I don't haunt the dealer's sites.

Still, with ESP snatching up all the old J/C players and loading them up with J/C copies, I guess it's just a matter of time before we see Jacksons with the ESP head and ESPs with the Jackson head [img]graemlins/eyes.gif[/img]

It'd really be funny (NOT!) to see Grover working with ESP one day [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Newc

[Deneb]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

It's kind of funny, what you can patent in the way of musical instruments, I don't mean different types, I mean like headstock shapes and shit.

It's very interesting, because I only really know Fender has sued people, and maybe Gibson. I didn't think you could sue over inlay shapes, because I've seen Aria Pro guitars with Jackson headstocks, and sharkies.

be kind of iteresting to see a list of all that is patented based on shapes, inlays, whatever per company.

[Deneb]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

and the 4x2 headstock with EB too.

[DumpyWumpy]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

Originally posted by Deneb:
and the 4x2 headstock with EB too.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That one still boggles me...is there more to it or is it simply that no one else is allowed to put 4 tuners on one side and 2 on the other...?

[Newc]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

It isn't so much a patent as a registered trademark, like the Jackson logo or the Strat head. I don't think you can patent a headstock shape, but you can trademark it, and then it becomes a visual identifier of your company (Strathead=Fender, RR body shape=Jackson, Les Paul body shape=Gibson, etc).
In all fairness, Rickenbacker had the sharkfin inlay first back in the 70s (or before), but Jackson is more known in the guitar community for ebony fins on maple boards than Ric is (they usually had MOP fins on rosewood).

Newc

[hippietim]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

Originally posted by neilli:
This might be old news, but has anyone else seen the inlays on this?:
http://www.espguitars.com/images/gal...zon_mm_big.jpg
Look familiar?
Cheers
Ian

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course it looks familiar:

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

Originally posted by Newc:
I don't think you can patent a headstock shape....

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually you can Newc. There's a type of patent called a "design patent" that covers the "ornamental features of an article of manufacture" (e.g., the purely decorative shape of a guitar's headstock) and doing so won't preclude, as you suggested, using and/or seeking registration for the design as a trademark as well. And neither of those prevents registering one's copyright in the design. This sort of thing is one of those areas where layers of protections are available.

[neilli]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

Don't get me wrong, I realise that C/J owe alot to other companies (body shapes, thru neck from BC Rich and Rickenbacker, etc) but usually they've put their own slant on things: for example, the inlays are sharkfin shaped not Rickenbacker triangular.
I just thought that ESP using exact copies of the Jackson inlay was going a bit too far.... In the argument above, if Jackson could use ESP's flag inlay, surely it's not too far down that road to make Gibson body styles (even though they're more likely to run into litigation over a body style than an inlay)
Still, I guess none of this really matters in the big scheme of things!
Cheers
ian

[Newc]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

Kevin Easont mentioned just before the FMIC invasion ( [img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img] ) that there was a loophole in Gibson's Explorer patent that would allow them to make a USA Select Explorer (remember the pic he posted of a black Jackson Explorer with green binding on the body, neck, and head?)
It had something to do with the angle of the front horn or something similar to why Hamer can produce the Standard.

Regarding neckthrough construction, Carvin and Gibson (Firebird) had neckthrough construction before Ric and Rich (Ric and Rich were doing set-neck & neckthrough in the 60s & 70s, Carvin and Gibson did it in the 50s IIRC)

Newc

[sully]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

Originally posted by DumpyWumpy:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Deneb:
and the 4x2 headstock with EB too.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That one still boggles me...is there more to it or is it simply that no one else is allowed to put 4 tuners on one side and 2 on the other...? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">it wasn't ernie ball, it was brian moore.

fwiw, the only part of the jackson head that's copyright protected is the 14 degree point at the tip.

sully

[pro-fusion]

Re: ESP taking the p*ss

Trademark rights, in particular, can be something of a 'moving target', since a lot depends on the perceived uniqueness of the item, and how widely is associated with your company by the intended audience.

Also, if you sit on your trademark rights (meaning you don't take steps to enforce them), you can lose them if your trademark becomes widely used. This is what makes the recent attempted enforcement of a trademark by Gibson against PRS of the Les Paul single-cutaway design all the more unusual, since that horse seemingly left the barn a long time ago.

All that said, I'm not an intellectual property lawyer, and there are a zillion different doctrines and exceptions in this area of the law.