Sounds in the Charvel San Dimas Style 1 2H?

[hippietim]

I have no limits

However, if you wish to offer evidence to dispute my claims, feel free.

Miles Davis - A Kind Of Blue - there's plenty of outside playing on that but it's still very approachable.

[Newc]

One thing I do admire about Davis is a quote I read once, where he was always searching for the "melody within the melody". I've adapted that (in my own way) to my own material, where I'll do an off-the-cuff solo over a rhythm, then listen to the full mix and see what overtones are generated - try to see if there's a melody within the melody.


However, from what I've heard of his actual performances (which I will admit is very little - selected snippets during commercials for things like Ken Burns' Jazz thing on PBS, etc), I thought the guy was on crack. Searching for the melody within the melody is fine and dandy for the studio/rehearsals, but once you get it on stage or on tape, it should be ready and somewhat finalized.

[JediHalen]

As far as the Jazz sound goes, quite a few players simply rolled off the tone knob to warm the pickup tone. So the Seymour in the neck of your Style 1 should do the trick just fine.

[The Rossness]

I recorded a quick demo for you (I'm not a jazz player)-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibuo2RtDYFs

[VitaminG]

Now, I'm more of a Swing/Big Band fan - Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, etc etc. I prefer orchestral stuff, but I like what Brian Setzer did with it by adding the guitar as a featured instrument. Kinda weak that he regurgitated his own Stray Cat Strut solo in one track, but then I've thrown in the solo to Freebird at 1/3rd speed on a Blues Jam

I picked up a "Glenn Miller Orchestra" CD way back in 90/91. When I got it home I realized it was his Orchestra and Mel Torme and Manhattan Transfer doing the singing. Mel Torme sucks. Manhattan Transfer were doing the "out" notes.
I returned it anf got one that said "newly remastered from the original 1940s recordings". THAT was Glenn Miller.

So you like the "safe", conservative jazz. That's fine - someone's gotta buy Kenny G albums.

Coltrane could sneeze out an ungodly green snot laden sweaty mess out of his nose and it would still sound amazing.

I like your style, sir.

Newc, just when I think you've bottomed out you manage to dig deeper.

He's on a roll. Look further down the page....

However, from what I've heard of his actual performances (which I will admit is very little - selected snippets during commercials for things like Ken Burns' Jazz thing on PBS, etc), I thought the guy was on crack. Searching for the melody within the melody is fine and dandy for the studio/rehearsals, but once you get it on stage or on tape, it should be ready and somewhat finalized.

So you've based your assessment of his playing on out of context snippets from commercials? That makes you some kind of authority, right? The political pundits who've learned all they know from the soundbites they hear on the ads for the evening news. You don't need to see or hear an entire interview to know what's going on in the world when the marketing director is giving you all you need in a sensational little soundgrab.

Have you ever created music on stage? I don't mean just playing a well-rehearsed solo (or the 1/3 speed Freebird solo at a blues jam), but actually trying to come up with something new on the spot? That's what Miles did every gig, and what he encouraged the guys in his band to do every night. The song is a vehicle from which to launch. Miles was a master at it, and in all of his concert performances that I've heard, I can't think of a poorly executed note. Taking it outside isn't the same as playing badly. I can play badly, inside or out. Miles hit every note like he meant it, when he took it out, he could always bring it right back in when it was time.

A lot of people don't like the dissonance of thrash metal. The vocals grate on their nerves as they sing in a really abrasive style, often wavering in and out of key. And the guitars show little regard for scalar "rules" when writing their riffs (or often their solos). It's an acquired taste. Not everyone digs it or understands it. Same with some forms of jazz.

[Newc]

Actually, yes, I have had several opportunities to create new material in a live setting (read: on stage in front of people that paid to see us).

However, we weren't a Jazz ensemble. We were a blues-based rock band with heavy leanings, so as long as we stuck to Pentatonics and familiar themes, the crowd didn't know it was made up on the spot (and I can tell you, some of those were Top 40 material - if only we woulda recorded them).


As for the "everything I need to know I learned from snippets", the whole idea of a snippet is to showcase the best - the essence, the definition of, etc - that's why movies suck these days - they show you the key elements during the trailer!

Obviously if you're showing a snippet of an influential Jazz artist, you want to show why he was influential - not just the stuff that made him a Jazz artist, but the stuff that made him a legendary Jazz artist. That happened to be the "out" playing.

And I still hold to the notion that it takes no more skill to play badly on purpose than it does to play badly on accident. Playing badly on purpose is still playing badly.

And if you think Glen Miller is the same as Kenny G, you have no idea what Swing is.

[VitaminG]

don't worry about me - I'm pretty well versed in swing and I know Kenny G ain't it. But both swing & Kenny G are safe, "inside" music, particularly by today's standards. Both are conservative, familiar, not likely to shock or surprise the listener. On the big band side of jazz, I actually prefer Artie Shaw (and not just because he was tapping Lana Turner when she was at her hottest) because his music had a dark menace to it.

Bebop is my preferred style of jazz. For all its aggression & dexterity, it's like 1940s speed metal. But then, it had a heavy emphasis on pushing the musical envelope, rhythmically & harmonically, which doesn't sit well with fans of the older Big Band styles. It didn't at the time either, with these kids making their crazy noises.

As for snippets, They're used to present something brief but familiar, not necessarily at their "best". Or they're used to portray an artist in a manner that the portrayer wishes them to be understood. You're more likely to see George Benson playing Gimme The Night or Dave Brubeck playing Take Five than some of their more challenging or interesting pieces. Clapton's coming to your town, what are they going to put on the 15 second TV ad promoting the concert? The main riff to Crossroads and a little of the chorus to Pretending?

If you wanted to feature Steve Vai in a 5 second snippet (selling your Guitar Gods of the 80s compilation, for example), what would you use to represent him in such a short time? What would feature him at his best? Would you included something where he's blazing away all over the neck? How about something slow and expressive, or something from that recent dvd with the orchestra? What would strike the most recognition with your audience? Or would you pick something in spandex, circa 1987, on stage in a music video with DLR, with Steve grabbing the bar & unleashing an unearthly pick squeal and dive bomb? Would that be Steve at his best?

I'm actually surprised the clip they featured of Miles was of some out of context "outside" playing and not him playing a Michael Jackson cover at Montreux in the 80s (or something like that).

Your movie trailer analogy is a good one. After you've watched one, how much do you really know about the movie? Not a lot. Some shit blew up, you know a couple of the actors that are in it, and you might have a very basic idea of the premise (but possibly not - it's mainly about shit blowing up). And that's in a 30 second trailer, not a 5 second grab in amongst a whole other similar bites of other featured artists.

[VitaminG]

And I still hold to the notion that it takes no more skill to play badly on purpose than it does to play badly on accident. Playing badly on purpose is still playing badly.

oops, missed this last time out.

So this bad playing you heard, it was flubbed notes? Bad timing? Poor execution?

Or are you defining "bad playing" as being note selections that don't appeal to you? If the execution is perfect but the notes played harmonically displeasing, is that bad playing or bad note selection? It can't be technically bad if the note is struck (or blown) clearly & with good technique, can it? Assuming that it's not just a first day player mashing their fingers on piano keys, but someone who has displayed they are capable of playing "inside" but chose to play "outside", how is it bad playing?

So then it becomes a question of taste, which is subjective.

It's like painters who paint ugly. Yea, there have been frauds who throw a tampon at a light bulb and call it art with no actually training or ability. But a lot of "ugly" art is created by people who are VERY capable of creating pretty, appealing, conventional pieces of art, but who have moved beyond that to create something else. You may not like it, but skill & training & a lifetime's dedication went into that ugly piece of art that you think looks like it created by a 2 year old.

[RacerX]

I recorded a quick demo for you (I'm not a jazz player)-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibuo2RtDYFs

Now that's service!

[vondran]

... but can I have a good clean sound for jazz?

Back to the posted question, I get good jazz tones out of my SoCal using the neck pickup (w/ volume knob turned way down to cut the highs) and into a Boogie Mark IIB clean channel, with no adjustments to my amp tone settings. I found the SD1 had more bite that the SoCal so it will be different. But yes, one can get good jazz sounds out of a solid body.

[Newc]

Assuming that it's not just a first day player mashing their fingers on piano keys, but someone who has displayed they are capable of playing "inside" but chose to play "outside", how is it bad playing?

In this example, the "first-day player" has a viable excuse in that they have no experience of knowledge of music. The "capable" artist has no such excuse.

If your child breaks a window in the house throwing a baseball, and they had no idea at the time that a baseball would break a window, that's one thing. If the child knows that a baseball will break a window and does it anyway, has the child "moved beyond" into some higher plane or did the child choose to do wrong, knowing it was wrong?

[Grandturk]

Does the baseball exist? Does the window not open upon a higher realm?

[VitaminG]

In this example, the "first-day player" has a viable excuse in that they have no experience of knowledge of music. The "capable" artist has no such excuse.

If your child breaks a window in the house throwing a baseball, and they had no idea at the time that a baseball would break a window, that's one thing. If the child knows that a baseball will break a window and does it anyway, has the child "moved beyond" into some higher plane or did the child choose to do wrong, knowing it was wrong?

I think more importantly, does the kid understand he's going to get a foot up his ass for intentionally breaking a window?

Did all the rest of the big words in my previous post confuse you?

I still wonder how you define bad playing? In the brief snippet you heard, was Miles' execution of the notes poor? Did it sound like he was physically incapable of playing the notes he was trying to? Or was it "bad" because it was harmonically jarring to you?

I mean, Ace Frehley plays badly, but he sticks to the pentatonic scale so his playing is always "inside", therefore his playing is good?

[bombtek]

And I still hold to the notion that it takes no more skill to play badly on purpose than it does to play badly on accident. Playing badly on purpose is still playing badly.

Is that the same is "ignorance is nothing more than stupidity by choice"?

That was my high school history teacher's favorite quote.

He'd follow it up with the question of "So who is more stupid? A legitimate idiot, or an ignorant person, I personally can find fewer faults with the idiot."

That teacher was awesome!!

I still use it a lot ......it is very applicable in everyday situations.