What corners were cut on the production models

[mudkicker]

Or is it just a collector mindset either nitpicking details or worrying that these models will devalue the originals. These are fairly basic guitars with color being the only option for the most part. I dont think anyone buys these expecting them to be an old charvel to collect or cherish forever. People buy these to play. I think theyre decent guitars for the price but I dont think they will hurt the value of the originals at all.

Trust me when I say there is no fear from anyone who owns an original SD Charvel that these will affect their value.

You look at the history of the brand I feel other than the originals only the Model series deserved to wear the Charvel badge. Once the toothpaste series came out, they were obviously more Jackson inspired. Gone were the full size strat body and the simple shredder guitar. There was more emphasis on the neck through models, which IMHO is a Jackson. Charvels are 22 fret bolt on shredders, plain and simple.

In the 90s the SD series was released they had nothing in common with the originals. These were rebadged Jackson with Wilkinson trems. Now I have to give a nod to the GX bullseye, those were pretty awesome.

The new product is pretty much cookie cutter material, yes they look nice. They aren't in the same league. So I really don't think any collector or fan of the original SD's are worried about their guitars value. Personally the originals weren't built to be trophies for a collector; they are players’ guitars for guitar players.

[Matt_B]

So, youre saying that he doesnt send the items from the picture? Or did the picture from your auction show a different pot?

Sorry, this is for Matt B.

I just found this one under the very same auction title as the other one.



Maybe charvel is hit or miss on which pot you get?

Yes, the auction I won had a picture with the split shaft and I received a solid shaft but as I said, I wanted the switch knob so it really didn't matter to me. I might need the pot someday but I have no immediate need for it.

[Grandturk]

I hate Gibsons marketing strategy, but they aren't introducing '59 wannabes under their own name brand. The So-Cal is at the same price point as "Road Worn Mexi-Strats" and I can't believe FMIC makes less $$ on one than the other. Y'know, An OLP is not a MM EVH at a different price point. It's a lesser instrument, a look-alike. IMO the So-Cal is a akin to a modern Kramer Focus 3000. Looks like the real thing, built fairly well but ultimately a copy of a copy of a copy.

I don't buy your argument at all. Is a Fender American Strat at $1000 any less a "Fender" than a Custom Shop Strat at $5000, or $12000 or more?

Is a $1000 Gibson Flying V any less a "Gibson" than a $6000 Korina hoop-di-doo Flying V?

In my eyes, I don't think so - they're just at a different price point.

[Carbuff]

Trust me when I say there is no fear from anyone who owns an original SD Charvel that these will affect their value.

You look at the history of the brand I feel other than the originals only the Model series deserved to wear the Charvel badge. Once the toothpaste series came out, they were obviously more Jackson inspired. Gone were the full size strat body and the simple shredder guitar. There was more emphasis on the neck through models, which IMHO is a Jackson. Charvels are 22 fret bolt on shredders, plain and simple.

In the 90s the SD series was released they had nothing in common with the originals. These were rebadged Jackson with Wilkinson trems. Now I have to give a nod to the GX bullseye, those were pretty awesome.

The new product is pretty much cookie cutter material, yes they look nice. They aren't in the same league. So I really don't think any collector or fan of the original SD's are worried about their guitars value. Personally the originals weren't built to be trophies for a collector; they are players’ guitars for guitar players.

I totally agree with all you've said. I was just trying to find a possible explanation for the hostility towards these guitars. I think that they are what they are and I mean that in a good way.

[Matt_B]

No offense but did some of you guys freak out this much when the Fort Model series Charvels came out?

I've been a Charvel/Jackson player on and off since '85. When Charvels become imports (the Model series) I started buying Jacksons which were still Charvels in my eyes. At the time, I was selling guitars for a living and I sold tons of the Model series. People loved 'em but most folks weren't under the illusion that they were the same as the ol' custom Charvels. They (the Model series) were nice guitars, comparable to anything in their price point. I think the same can be said for the new Production series.

To me, the Custom Shop Charvels will always be the ones I love and probably the only ones I ever own but that doesn't diminish my appreciation and respect for the Production series.

[Matt_B]

I was just trying to find a possible explanation for the hostility towards these guitars. I think that they are what they are and I mean that in a good way.

I think the reason is pretty simple. It's the same reason some folks don't like the import Jacksons - they're not "the real thing" and anything less than the real thing is devalues the name brand. Heck, I don't think the import Jacksons are anything special but they don't cost $2K either. Import Jacksons and Production series Charvels are still more Jackson or Charvel than anything else out there, save the custom shop versions.

[Axewielder]

I think that they are what they are and I mean that in a good way.

I guess my complaint is that they aren't what they are, or at least what they seem to be. They would seem to have German made Floyds, and would seem to have been made in San Dimas (based upon the neckplate). Now we all know the history and why that isn't true, but surely people are getting confused by this.

Now the model series, those were what they were.

[Carbuff]

I guess my complaint is that they aren't what they are, or at least what they seem to be. They would seem to have German made Floyds, and would seem to have been made in San Dimas (based upon the neckplate). Now we all know the history and why that isn't true, but surely people are getting confused by this.

Now the model series, those were what they were.

Yeah, they were made in Fort Worth as per the neckplate and they had The jt-6 trem or a single locking kahler with a locking nut (I never understood that) and basswood bodies. I love the model series guitars but they were not perfect either. They were probably just as expensive too, relatively speaking.

[85 San Dimas]

I don't buy your argument at all. Is a Fender American Strat at $1000 any less a "Fender" than a Custom Shop Strat at $5000, or $12000 or more?

Is a $1000 Gibson Flying V any less a "Gibson" than a $6000 Korina hoop-di-doo Flying V?

In my eyes, I don't think so - they're just at a different price point.

Grandturk, I can't for the life of me agree that a Charvel should be anything FMIC puts a Charvel sticker on. No thanks. I guess I missed the passing out of the Kool-Aid.

On your Fender/Gibson point: No, I look at the fact that the 12K Malmsteen is no MORE of a Fender than the 1K.
If Fender doesn't want to give us their "best" then why buy any of it? If their "best" is CS why settle for anything less? Same for Charvel.
Because if the CS is their best then only the best is a real Fender or Charvel............. and anything less is just a "lesser copy" of their best work..........innit?

Well, have at it man. Buy them all.....meanwhile I'll be out there scooping up the real thing with that money. I won't pay 999 (or even close) for that when I can buy an 85-86 Student Soloist for 1K or less, an 85 or 86 Charvel Bolt-on (non graphic) for 1K or so maybe a little more. Hell, I'd be crazy to buy a new So-Cal. 3 months or a year from now when you can't unload it for 5 bills I'll be sitting there with an 85 SD. it'll be dinged a little but it'll be real. Hell even an early Ontario Jackson is more authentic.

Why buy Milwaukees Best when Heineken is the same price? To all the rest of you. I'm glad you love them and play them. I hope you enjoy them I really do. I think they're fine guitars. I just think they shouldn't say Charvel on them.

[jet66]

I just bought a SoCal, and I love it. Being a big Strat fan, I'd be just as happy if it said 'Fender' on it. I love it and bought it for exactly what it is: An affordable hot-rodded Floyded Strat in a catchy color. Being that I know it won't be a true 'collector's item,' I'll mod it without thinking twice, something I don't think I'd want to do with a real San Dimas.

My son lucked upon an all-original '83 Jackson bass for $500 when I took him Christmas shopping, and the caveat that came with me buying it for him was 'you don't change anything on it but the strings, and if you ever don't want it, need to sell it for money, or whatever, I get first choice to buy from you.' Some day the right SD Charvel for me will come along and I will snatch it up. When it does, I plan on keeping it as original as possible, due to their 'historic significance.'

You do have to wonder what will happpen 10 or so years down the road, though. There was a time when anything Fender post Leo was 'pure crap and not worth a dime,' and now even their worst CBS years have crept up in value. The 70's-80's MIJ Fenders were reviled as well, and look what they sell for now. I've got a '99 American Standard that I paid $750 (w/case) for, new on clearance, when they were getting a major overhaul for the next year. I see them on ebay from time to time, sans case, selling for what I paid new or even more. IMO it's ridiculous, and it doesn't make them any more valuable to the more discriminating connoisseur, but you just never know what the market will do in the future.

[Grandturk]

Why buy Milwaukees Best when Heineken is the same price? To all the rest of you. I'm glad you love them and play them. I hope you enjoy them I really do. I think they're fine guitars. I just think they shouldn't say Charvel on them.

Mostly because Heineken tastes like shit. But I digress.

Hey, keep scooping up the $5K custom shops. More power to you. They aren't that much better than the production stuff.


... edit: Sorry - that's deliberately trolling. Here's what I see as the value of a Custom Shop guitar (from any brand) - you get what you pay for - whatever options, finish and gear you want - that's what custom shop means to me. You get the security of knowing that a small group of luthiers took their time to build it and rubbed it with a diaper every couple of minutes. What Custom Shop doesn't mean to me is a superior playing or sounding guitar.

[AndyK]

My .02 - The necks are certainly to die for, the pickups are first class. Sustain is great on my SD-1, the paint is perfect, and I got it at a great used price. I can also play it without fear of wearing out a vintage collector San Dimas.

I chose to un-cut some corners. I've since installed a German Floyd, a metal knob, and a real CTS pot. Now, it feels BETTER than my original '86 pointy Charvel did (which buzzed, and had all kinds of "custom shop" shims to correct flaws in the neck angle and nut cut out).

I love the guitar, and I consider it a modern Charvel, made in the USA, and a guitar to hold onto for a long time.

Rant off!

[khabibissell]

You can't really get much of a guitar for under $1K these days unfortunately (remember when you could get a new solid color SL1 or 2 for that? Doesn't seem like it was all that long ago), and I think these Production guitars are a pretty good guitar for the money. I don't own one (I'm on an Ibanez kick these days), but I've noodled with a few of them in the store and they seem pretty solid. Hell, even the lower end Prestige Ibenhads are hovering near a grand (or more in some cases).

Buying a true "USA" Charvel (like the SD reissues) for example doesn't guarantee you anything either. I've owned two of them... one was outstanding (foolishly sold), and the other one is crap, though it looked cool and "old school" when I got it. It sounds thin, it needed a fret leveling, the headstock cover is lifting and cracking, one of the locking nut screw holes was drilled into the truss rod cavity (so it is basically half a hole) redering it useless. I have to wind each string on the bass side to the bottom of the tuner to keep pressure on the nut or it will move... I've tried filling the hole too. Last but definitely not least, the Floyd post holes were drilled too far forward on the body, so when the trem is installed, the bar retainer on the bottom buts up against the body in the cavity. After trying to get it taken care of under warranty (I had the guitar about six months at that point), I said fukk it, pulled out my dremel and routed it myself. I now have a $1700 dollar guitar that is worth probably $50. Great investment huh?

[metalhobo]

I chose to un-cut some corners. I've since installed ... a real CTS pot.

So what's the deal with the pots? My CT SoCal has a true CTS pot and it's great. Are they running out of them or something?

[hippietim]

When I asked for clarification on where this guitar was made and not assembled, I was not concerned about the ethnicity of the builder. My point was if these were being cut, shaped and painted in Mexico and then bolted together in the US, I don't think that qualifies an Made in the USA and the price should reflect accordingly to where it's built. Bionic cleared that up. So no issue.

He didn't clear that up. He left it ambiguous. Nobody from Charvel has stated that other than the Floyd, they are 100% USA made including fret work, painting, setup, wiring, etc. Lots of companies take advantage of the laws surrounding labeling goods Made In USA. Fender has been called out on this in the past.

There are lots of games companies play with "Made in USA". There are lots of things that can be done around factoring cost of components and services relative to the whole since the cost of materials and services to produce certain aspects can vary greatly depending on who does the work or where it is done. They particular attention to "substantial transformation" and make sure that happes in the US.