What corners were cut on the production models

[Flatpicker]

And San Dimas is just 120 miles away from Baja, 25 miles from corona. If the plant was in San Diego would anyone question the USA-ness of it? I live in NY and if that plant was here Im sure it would be staffed with "Mexicans" too . Oh, and here is a pic of the pot that comes on the sd model.

Actually, I'm not dogging it.
I just don't get the issue when both cities are so close.

[Grandturk]

FWIW with these, is it me, or have sales/talk slowed down since the initial "wow" factor has worn off? Also, I'm almost positive one of the cut corners are 3 piece bodies... though 3 pieces aren't awful, my MIM Straight Six has one and it is a VERY well built instrument, but a $1k instrument should use a two piece.

I can vouch though that these are not made in Baja. The comments of spotty QC intrigues me though, as MIA Strats are generally all extremely tight and well built guitars. "Shoved out the door syndrom" maybe? I've not been able to track one down to play, and have other expenses besides guitars.

I think, in general, all sales have slowed down. However, I'm running into people all the time that have just bought a SD or a Socal and are diggin' them.

Myself, I'm waiting for something in white... and dammit, if Bionic don't come through - it might just have to be that wank-caster with Adrien Smith's siggy scrawled on it.

[Carbuff]

Actually, I'm not dogging it.
I just don't get the issue when both cities are so close.

Ah, I see, I didnt get your motive at first. Darn Internet! I guess its a matter of accountability. On one side of the border who knows what goes on as far as workers and pay, and on the other side there are laws to help workers and such. You can build a nice shiny plant in Mexico but if the worker is only being paid jack, he might not be as "into" what hes doing all day. but youre right about the whole misconception that the corona plant is full of white Anglo "craftsmen" while the baja plant is full of "mexicans" Im sure there isnt much difference in the demographic of the workers in each plant. If you can legally put Made in USA on something it will sell for more just for that reason alone it seems. I guess a "mexi-charvel" would sell for $500 for basically the same guitar.

[Flatpicker]

I'd buy a Mexi-Charvel if it were at 5-600.00.

[Carbuff]

Me too!

[Dogbone]

And San Dimas is just 120 miles away from Baja, 25 miles from corona. If the plant was in San Diego would anyone question the USA-ness of it? I live in NY and if that plant was here Im sure it would be staffed with "Mexicans" too . Oh, and here is a pic of the pot that comes on the sd model. Id be more worried about the soldering, yuck.

Interesting... That's not the pot that came in my SD :think:
Mine is a solid shaft, not split...
It is a CTS though... Maybe different suppliers or what was in stock at the time....
I can't complain about my Charvel... Seems to be well made... No issues with fret overhang, or poorly dressed frets... Maybe I got lucky :think:
Not a bad guitar for the price...

[85 San Dimas]

Well then Bionic if FMIC is going to stick to this position I guess everyone over at the CS should be looking for new jobs because I don't see how FMIC can keep that facility open. Either the So-Cals are cost-cutters or the CS-guys are good-for-nothing and lazy (which I don't believe). Against these new So-Cals the CS products cost too much. FMIC would make more money if they just let the new guys build them all. Spend 3 times as long building it and it'll still only cost 1500 bucks. They're high quality legit Charvels according to FMIC. What's not to like? if they're the only builders it'll still be "the best FMIC has to offer" and Charvel will be in a position to grab a larger market share.

How do I know? Because it's the case you just made. FMIC can sell USA production Charvels for $999 list and they deserve the name Charvel.
I hate Gibsons marketing strategy, but they aren't introducing '59 wannabes under their own name brand. The So-Cal is at the same price point as "Road Worn Mexi-Strats" and I can't believe FMIC makes less $$ on one than the other. Y'know, An OLP is not a MM EVH at a different price point. It's a lesser instrument, a look-alike. IMO the So-Cal is a akin to a modern Kramer Focus 3000. Looks like the real thing, built fairly well but ultimately a copy of a copy of a copy.

In closing I'll say this to drive my point home:

Guard the treasures man because we're getting older, and if FMIC loses the plot again it may get lost for good this time. Thanks for your efforts always, I wish you well all the way around. I just disagree with you on this particular issue.

[Matt_B]

Oh, and here is a pic of the pot that comes on the sd model. Id be more worried about the soldering, yuck.

Interesting... That's not the pot that came in my SD :think: Mine is a solid shaft, not split... It is a CTS though... Maybe different suppliers or what was in stock at the time.... I can't complain about my Charvel... Seems to be well made... No issues with fret overhang, or poorly dressed frets... Maybe I got lucky :think: Not a bad guitar for the price...

I just bought that very item on eBay (just for the switch tip mind you) and the pot is a solid shaft CTS version.

[RandomFan]

Well then Bionic if FMIC is going to stick to this position I guess everyone over at the CS should be looking for new jobs because I don't see how FMIC can keep that facility open. Either the So-Cals are cost-cutters or the CS-guys are good-for-nothing and lazy (which I don't believe). Against these new So-Cals the CS products cost too much. FMIC would make more money if they just let the new guys build them all. Spend 3 times as long building it and it'll still only cost 1500 bucks. They're high quality legit Charvels according to FMIC. What's not to like? if they're the only builders it'll still be "the best FMIC has to offer" and Charvel will be in a position to grab a larger market share.

How do I know? Because it's the case you just made. FMIC can sell USA production Charvels for $999 list and they deserve the name Charvel.
I hate Gibsons marketing strategy, but they aren't introducing '59 wannabes under their own name brand. The So-Cal is at the same price point as "Road Worn Mexi-Strats" and I can't believe FMIC makes less $$ on one than the other. Y'know, An OLP is not a MM EVH at a different price point. It's a lesser instrument, a look-alike. IMO the So-Cal is a akin to a modern Kramer Focus 3000. Looks like the real thing, built fairly well but ultimately a copy of a copy of a copy.

In closing I'll say this to drive my point home:

Guard the treasures man because we're getting older, and if FMIC loses the plot again it may get lost for good this time. Thanks for your efforts always, I wish you well all the way around. I just disagree with you on this particular issue.

Hi man,not meaning to offend you in any way. but what would you change in the current production charvels to make them more "true" to the Charvel name?
Is it the Floyd that is making all of the fuss?
Or do you think a true charvel supposed to be handmade like the old ones?

[Carbuff]

So, youre saying that he doesnt send the items from the picture? Or did the picture from your auction show a different pot?

Sorry, this is for Matt B.

[Carbuff]

Hi man,not meaning to offend you in any way. but what would you change in the current production charvels to make them more "true" to the Charvel name?
Is it the Floyd that is making all of the fuss?
Or do you think a true charvel supposed to be handmade like the old ones?

Or is it just a collector mindset either nitpicking details or worrying that these models will devalue the originals. These are fairly basic guitars with color being the only option for the most part. I dont think anyone buys these expecting them to be an old charvel to collect or cherish forever. People buy these to play. I think theyre decent guitars for the price but I dont think they will hurt the value of the originals at all.

[Carbuff]

I just bought that very item on eBay (just for the switch tip mind you) and the pot is a solid shaft CTS version.

I just found this one under the very same auction title as the other one.



Maybe charvel is hit or miss on which pot you get?

[85 San Dimas]

Hi man,not meaning to offend you in any way. but what would you change in the current production charvels to make them more "true" to the Charvel name?
Is it the Floyd that is making all of the fuss?
Or do you think a true charvel supposed to be handmade like the old ones?

No man, not offending me at all, neither the floyd nor the collector stuff is what I'm going after here. I'm addressing both posts here so here comes the WALL of text:

To me (and many of us) the name "Charvel" means something and is is used to refer to production high quality or to perception of same unique to Charvels. That reputation was EARNED in the 70's and early 80's and later saved the brand. Charvel was nearly killed by marketing departments sticking that name on cost-cutter instruments to transfer a perception of quality to increase sales/profits. Anyone can build them them to "Charvel Specs" ,but what makes them "Charvels"? The decal? I don't want that to happen again.

I'm insulted by FMIC starting this process all over again by pasting the Charvel name, and the associated reputation of high quality (parts, build) onto an instrument which is clearly a cost cutter (which a "real Charvel" most certainly is not). I'm free not to buy of course, but whether I do or don't the brand will suffer just like last time.

To FMIC: if you're going to outsource this stuff then what reason would any of us have to not go back and just buy used IRC stuff instead? It's just as authentic "Charvel". Maybe more because that's all Charvel was at that time. They didn't have a real USA CS in place.
To BUYERS: If it's more important that it say "Charvel" on it than it is for it be built by Charvel then FMIC has something you'll love. The very existence of this guitar line is a bet that the decal is more important to you than the parts and the builders.

Some say, Well, the only difference(s) are that Charvel isn't cutting the wood, or painting, or providing Charvel labor for assembly (the "real builders" not just someone wearing a Charvel name badge). Maybe parts are "to spec" rather than authentic but somehow it will magically be worthy of the name Charvel. Now in my small world 2+1 doesn't equal 4. If it isn't the real parts, and it isn't the real builders, then how can it be the real thing? :think: Why does FMIC need to do this to Charvel? Answer: Because they have to. Because the other names are used up for now. Daddy's is full of Indonesian or Indian Jacksons. "Nah don't want none of them Jacksons, but if you'd make some cheaper Charvels I could sure sell a bunch of them". That's how it happens.

Either Charvel is a premium brand or it isn't. "Mexican Strat" and "Epiphone Lp Custom" are not premium brands yet this is the price point these guitars are built to.

Personally I would try to find a way to create a little additional manpower over at Charvel to cut the bodies and necks for these. Not the final sanding, the painting, the fretwork, etc. Make cutting these the educational OJT for the Charvel CS. Just cut and shape the wood, or use the blem pieces to create the lower line. The use your new assemblers to do finsih work. The money is in the assembly and finishing labor by whomever(unless everything but final assembly is being done elsewhere overseas & I'd bet it is).

I think my suggestion beats having a Chinese immigrant in a S.Korean factory to rub out bodies (not saying FMIC does this, just an example of the logic) and then FMIC acting like its USA (it's "legal" to say so) because it was assembled here. Then GC saying "Yeah buddy, that there's a real Charvel made here in the good 'ol USA for "only" $999.

IMO based on this marketing move (which we've seen before) in a few years Charvel will be in the dumper w/ every possible dime wrung from the name. Jacksons will be CS and then the process will start over again by sending the Jacksons downmarket (USA made! from parts unknown to Jackson specs) while Daddy's is full of Indonesian Charvels and we'll all be asking "where it went wrong".

Right here and right now is where it went wrong. I understand some will disagree.

[85 San Dimas]

Or is it just a collector mindset either nitpicking details or worrying that these models will devalue the originals. These are fairly basic guitars with color being the only option for the most part. I dont think anyone buys these expecting them to be an old charvel to collect or cherish forever. People buy these to play. I think theyre decent guitars for the price but I dont think they will hurt the value of the originals at all.

I agree with your point. But based on that though they don't need to wear the Charvel name. They could have a Hondo decal and play out just the same.

[mudkicker]

Ah, I see, I didnt get your motive at first. Darn Internet! I guess its a matter of accountability. On one side of the border who knows what goes on as far as workers and pay, and on the other side there are laws to help workers and such. You can build a nice shiny plant in Mexico but if the worker is only being paid jack, he might not be as "into" what hes doing all day. but youre right about the whole misconception that the corona plant is full of white Anglo "craftsmen" while the baja plant is full of "mexicans" Im sure there isnt much difference in the demographic of the workers in each plant. If you can legally put Made in USA on something it will sell for more just for that reason alone it seems. I guess a "mexi-charvel" would sell for $500 for basically the same guitar.

When I asked for clarification on where this guitar was made and not assembled, I was not concerned about the ethnicity of the builder. My point was if these were being cut, shaped and painted in Mexico and then bolted together in the US, I don't think that qualifies an Made in the USA and the price should reflect accordingly to where it's built. Bionic cleared that up. So no issue.