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Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-recto)

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  • Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-recto)

    Ok first of all, I've been partying all the last week and haven't really slept much so I'm sorry for all the following spelling mistakes and jibba jabba [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

    A fellow JCF member JC_Denton needed some help with his amps.

    Ok so I went to Tartu, wich is the second largest city in our country. We hook up there and went to his place.

    Ok the gear was
    *Marshall JCM 2000 DSL-100 head
    *Mesa Boogie 3 channel Triple Rectifier 150w head
    *Carvin Legacy 4x12 slant cabinet with Celestion V-30 speakers.
    *Ibanez Tube Screamer TS9 overdrive pedal

    I brought along
    *Boss DS-1 distortion
    *Boss MT-2 Metal-Zone distortion
    *Boss CE-5 Chorus Ensemble
    *Boss DD-3 Digital Delay

    The main guitar wich we used was mine Jackson SL-3 with Seymourd Duncan JB humbucker in the bridge and Seymour Duncan Hot-Rails in the neck and middle position

    The whole gear was in a very small bedroom, so there weren't much acoustics.
    BTW. JC is one lucky SOB, he can crank his Triple Rectifier in his little apartment, the neighbours must be very happy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
    JC really wanted to get a great heavy chunky rhythm tone ala metallica and a fat smooth lead tone ala Holdsworth.

    Ok first we started to tweak the Marshall DSL-100.
    Those amps aren't usually very good. The Carvin Legacy cab. makes the tone much better.

    The clean tones aren't good. With the help of delay and chorus in the effects loop, guitar's neck pickup and turning the volume knob down about 50% we got a pretty decent clean. It's definetly not a Fender clean but much better than it was before.

    The lead channel wasn't imprssive at all. TS9 in front helped to improve the tone a little bit. The best we got was just a cheap Marshall tone wich is bearable [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

    Then we used Boss DS-1 instead of the TS9. The tone went a lot better. With the help of Delay and Chorus pedals we got close to Dokken and Van Halen tones. But that's wasn't really the goal.

    Then it was time to use my secret weapon, the Boss Metal Zone pedal. A lot of people hate it, I think most of the folks can't really use it correctly.

    The rhythm tone was better than with the DS-1, it was kinda like George Lynch or VH on steroids tone.

    But the real magic was what the Metal Zone can do with the lead tone. The Hi and Low knobs were about 1 o'clock, the gain was 12 o'clock. And now the most important thing. The Mid controlls. I turned the Mid frequency cotroll to 9 o'clock to have a lot of lower mids wich is un-Marshall and turned the Mid level knob to 3 o'clock to have a lot of overall midrange and bite.

    The tone was fat and smooth with tons of sustain. I pretty much nailed Gary Moore's live Soldano tone (Still Got The Blues etc.)
    With the neck pickup and tone knob turned down about 50%, some delay and a little bit chorus I got close to John Sykes lead tone on "Is This Love"
    Ok, one goal was archived, we got a decent lead tone.

    Then we went to see a drummer's contest wich my good friend won of course. Saw a lot of friend musicians who I haven't seen in a million years.

    After that we went back to JC's apartment.
    It was time to tweak the Triple Recto, in a bedroom, ouch [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
    JC hated it, he wanted to sold it because he only got buzz out of it. He didn't get any decent rhythm or lead tone out of it.
    It didn't had the Rectifier tubes in it, we used the silicon diodes setting anyway wich is much better than the tube rectifier mode.
    It was loaded with EL34s, the last one was missing so it would be 100w instead of 150w. With all the tubes we probably would have blowed out of the window [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
    We also used the bold mode.

    I had an idea to put the TS9 in front of the amp. THE amp has TONS of gain but I wanted it in the singal anyway.

    First the clean tone wasn't impressive. It needs processing like the Marshall.

    Now to the 2nd and 3rd channel.
    EVERY knob changes the tone TRASTICALLY. It needs a lot of tweaking with every knob, and some of the controlls are interactive wich is extra pain in the ass.

    The 3rd channel sounds way better than the 2nd one.
    First we only got a lot of buzz. Then I turned on the Tube Screamer and tone was much cleaner and powerfull.
    The presence was around the 9 o'clock, I don't like when a lot of presence is used. There weren't no insane EQ settings, all the knobs were around 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock. The volume varied from 1-2 to 5.
    I analyzed and tone and increased what was missing and decreased what was too much. I got a very decent hot-rodded Marshall tone. Foo Fighters, ACDC on steroids etc. The lead tones weren't anything superb but they were improved a lot.
    The problem was with the palm-muting, we didn't get the heavy fat chunka-chunka sound, instead we got a lot of farting sounds.

    Luckly JC had three 6L6s in his home. I wanted right away to put them in because 6L6s are more clearer, powerfull and I like them more than EL34s.
    So we had two EL34s and three 6l6s in the amp.
    The amp was muddy as fuck again.

    But as soon as I turned on the Tube Screamer, the magic happened. The amp sounded MUCH cleaner, tighter and powerfull.
    One of the most important things was the Solo level controll. It changed the tone more than anything else. It could make the tone very thin or very fat. The sweetest spot was around the 10-11 o'clock.
    The Tube Screamer settings were also very important because they changed the tone trastically too. The tone knob was around 3 o'clock and the drive knob was 12 o'clock. It was very important. Increasing the gain with the tube screamer made the tone MUCH better.
    The amp's gain knob was around 2 o'clock. That means we used a lot of gain, but it was all USEABLE.
    The presence knob was on 9 o'clock.
    Lows were 11 o'clock
    Mids were 1 o'clock
    Highs were 11 o'clock

    I played tons of my random riffs and got very close to Metallica, Pantera, Van Halen on hyper steroids tone etc.
    Also the amp sounded great when I used slide and played some heavy riffs with it in the style of Motley Crue+Delta Blues+Godsmack+Alice In Chains. JC thought it sounded badass.

    The lead tone was also improved, it wasn't anything near perfect but a lot better than in the beginning. But the lead tone with the Marshall and Metal Zone sounded much better.

    The rhtyhm tone we got wasn't really 100% perfect, but it was very good. I told JC to get more 6L6s, wich he will do. The tone should improve more then. Also it needs some tweaking there and there but the basic shit is all done.

    The Mesa sounds VERY dry so it definetly needs some delay or something in the loop.

    Everything was done then and I came back to Tallinn.

    Some notes:

    *The tone was a lot better when the volume knob was around 2-3 o'clock than it was around the 4-5 o'clock. It was pretty interesting because usually Mesas sound better when they are louder. But it's good for JC because he doesn't have to kill his ears to get a decent tone.

    *Thanks to my awsome tweaking skills, ears and analyzation [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] we got a great metal tone in a couple of hours. JC didn't want to sell the Boogie anymore, he said that the Marshall has to go [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

    *Pedals are GREAT. Different pedals for different amps. Tube Screamer with Recto is AWSOME. So are some distortions with the Marshall

    *Metal Zone does not suck if you can use it correctly

    *6L6s are WAY better than EL34 for hi gain tones

    *My guitars (super high action) are VERY uncomfortable for the other players [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

    *JC is a good player. Great chops and cool vibrato wich is a mix of Blues Saraceno's and George Lynch's vibrato. Also he likes to drink a lot of beer [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

    Good Day!
    "There is nothing more fearful than imagination without taste" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    "To be stupid, selfish and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost" - Gustave Flaubert

  • #2
    Re: Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-rec

    I'm confused as to how you ran different types of tubes, as well as an odd number of them in an amp without fucking it up???

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-rec

      you can play without rectifier tubes if you use the silicone diode mode, nothing bad wont happen, you can take out the last power tube (Triple Recto), to lower the wattage, I haven't heard much complaints that it fucks the amp up.
      But about using different tubes together, as far as the Mark seeries Boogies go, it's very common thing do to. With the Rectos I'm not sure, It probably does some damage. But JC will get the missing 6L6s in anytime, so that's not a big problem.
      "There is nothing more fearful than imagination without taste" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

      "To be stupid, selfish and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost" - Gustave Flaubert

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-rec

        I forgot to mention that we used the Modern drive voicing on the 3rd channel.
        "There is nothing more fearful than imagination without taste" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

        "To be stupid, selfish and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost" - Gustave Flaubert

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-rec

          Damn E bro..that's a LONG post...I need to reads this when I gots da time! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]
          "Bill, Smoke a Bowl and Crank Van Halen I, Life is better when I do that"
          Donnie Swanstrom 01/25/06..miss ya!

          "Well, your friend would have Bell's Palsy, which is a facial paralysis, not "Balls Pelsy" like we're joking about here." Toejam's attempt at sensitivity.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-rec

            Hehee ,

            lol i really dont have a lot to add to the book that Endrik wrote , just this Endik guy is very cool person , the best tweaker i have seen, lots of knowledge . Great vibrato( many different types of vibratos) , good fingertone . Dude uses very high action so all i did was mess things up when using his guitar(btw sweet Jackson soloist:P , very difficult to play.

            He allmost nailed the Dokken tone with marshall and his boss pedals. He got a killer sound out of the boogie (and it will go even better using 6x jj 6l6 tubes witch i will buy soon).

            I wanted to sell the boogie but now it will stay, i will just buy another for the lead tones.

            And yes his metal riffs + slide stuff just ripped my head off.

            I wish i only remeberd more of the mini meetup ,cause i was really drunk

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-rec

              BTW thank you for the nice words here on the board Endrik

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-rec

                I know about removing power tubes in duets to reduce wattage, but you also have to change your impedance to match. I'm just confused how you ran 5 power tubes? They're supposed to work in tandem, which requires two.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-rec

                  [ QUOTE ]
                  I know about removing power tubes in duets to reduce wattage, but you also have to change your impedance to match. I'm just confused how you ran 5 power tubes? They're supposed to work in tandem, which requires two.

                  [/ QUOTE ]

                  You can run oddball numbers of tubes in a push/pull (even one tube) but the result will be...questionable [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-rec

                    [ QUOTE ]
                    I know about removing power tubes in duets to reduce wattage, but you also have to change your impedance to match. I'm just confused how you ran 5 power tubes? They're supposed to work in tandem, which requires two.

                    [/ QUOTE ]

                    ahha, I know what your saying, I would ask the same question [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
                    the previous owner of that amp only played like that, and nothing bad happened, I guess we never find out if something happens to it because as JC said he is getting new JJ 6L6s (wich is the best choise for that amp IMO) and there are no oddball number of tubes anymore [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
                    but it worked, we used everything we got, and the amp was definetly quieter than the triple normally with all the tubes would be.
                    "There is nothing more fearful than imagination without taste" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

                    "To be stupid, selfish and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost" - Gustave Flaubert

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bedroom amp tweaking (Mrshl DSL100 & M/B 3-rec

                      btw. the reason I made such a long post is because that there are a lot of folks who have serious problems getting a decent tones with Rectos, I covered all the basic things so I hope it helps some to get a better tone.

                      also one thing I forgot to mention that we used Metal Zone with the Marshall's clean channel and TS and DS-1 with the lead channel to boost the gain.
                      "There is nothing more fearful than imagination without taste" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

                      "To be stupid, selfish and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost" - Gustave Flaubert

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Endrik

                        *6L6s are WAY better than EL34 for hi gain tones

                        Good Day!
                        +1

                        Too much preamp gain + too much power tube distortion = mushy/fuzzy/buzzy tone.

                        Comment

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