i know i have issues....need more amp advice

[eaeolian]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

Hmm. I'd totally disagree with everything JG's said about the Recto in a live situation, but then again, I run mine VERY bright and without a big "scoop" - think the IE tone on "Alive In Athens", but with a little more "girth" to it. Of course, I also have a Triple, so I can pretty much overpower anything as long as I have enough cabs. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Don't get me wrong, I love the Soldanos, but I like the Recto rhythm tone better for what I do.

[jgcable]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm. I'd totally disagree with everything JG's said about the Recto in a live situation, but then again, I run mine VERY bright and without a big "scoop" - think the IE tone on "Alive In Athens", but with a little more "girth" to it. Of course, I also have a Triple, so I can pretty much overpower anything as long as I have enough cabs. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Don't get me wrong, I love the Soldanos, but I like the Recto rhythm tone better for what I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Michael, is there another guitarist in your band?

[jgcable]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

[ QUOTE ]
I like RECTO because of the versality and because of the modern hi-gain metal tone.
RECTO's metal tone is the only thing in need for metal, I don't need classic marshall heavy metal tone, it is 21th century, I need something new.

Some of my fav tones for really ass kickin metal are these:

Mudvayne - The End Of All Things To Come
http://s5.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=34...J0VLQMEDUP3TPI

very Pantera-ish song, check out the Dime-ish riff at the 1:46-2:01

This is want I want, a very bassy chunk.

White Zombie - El Phantasmo And Chicken-Run Blast-O-Rama
http://s5.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0Q...H1T2WQQK5P1LV5

Check out the main groovy riff. I play a lot of those kind on riffs, a lot of groov 'n shit. This is why Recto destroys the other amps, they don't "sing" when I groove.

Also I play a lot of big chords. With recto I really get the FULL massive sound on the sustained chords. Listen to Alter Bridge or Nickelback to understand what I'm talkin' about. Everything "rings" so clearly.

I don't do super fast palm muting or tremolo picking riffs, the other hi gain amps are better for that, Recto suits for the things better wich I described above.

I don't really get the Mudvayne's tone with any other amps. I can get close but when it comes to recoring then it's a big NO NO, they dont's sound at all like that. Recto is the only way to go the get that tone....ok ok...Diezel VH-4 was very good too, the only non-recto wich I would use.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me clarify the tone I am talking about. Its not Mudvayne!!! I like Mudvayne but I am not a fan of the guitar tone. It sounds too nu-metal and fizzy to me. I would describe it as white noise with alot of bottom end chunk. Thats not my idea of a guitar tone that exhibits notes flying out from everywhere. Its not articulate. Its just bottom heavy and chunky with a certain degree of Pantera type scooped tone mixed in. You almost don't even need a bass player with that kind of chunk. Thats not what I am talking about at all. I am talking more old school 80's power metal.

[siggy14]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

see what you all have to remember is there are so many varibles that take place. Depends on how someone EQ's an amp, cabinet, there playing style, there pickups etc.. JG is taklinga bout a particular tone which is more 80's. By the way with a recto you can get 80's with a bite by switching to the EL34's and keeping the mids up, you would be surprized how well it will keep up with a marshall! But in the long run a recto does go better when it is by itself, but with the right tweeking or right place in the band it will be fine.

[jgcable]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

Siggy, I am a fan of Rectifiers. My ex-bandmate would tear his hair out searching and tweaking his Dual Rectifier for that perfect 80's metal tone. Different venues, different room sizes, would all change his tone. All I had to do with my Marshall rig was plug in. I barely ever had to adjust anthing. I know fully well that a Rectifier can keep up with a Marshall. The problem is all the tweaking a retubing involved.

[siggy14]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

[ QUOTE ]
Siggy, I am a fan of Rectifiers. My ex-bandmate would tear his hair out searching and tweaking his Dual Rectifier for that perfect 80's metal tone. Different venues, different room sizes, would all change his tone. All I had to do with my Marshall rig was plug in. I barely ever had to adjust anthing. I know fully well that a Rectifier can keep up with a Marshall. The problem is all the tweaking a retubing involved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Key word is 80's metal, i kinda went through the same thing, no matter how much you tweak a mesa will sound like a mesa and a marshall will sound like a marshall. What it comes down too is if you want a marshall get a marshall or a marshall clone, if you want a mesa get a mesa, anyone can play 80's metal on any type of amp, but if you are trying to match the tone exactly you are not gonna get that out of a mesa. I love the way a marshall sounds for 80's and rock and that is what i use for them. For balls out metal i plug into my recto.

[eaeolian]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm. I'd totally disagree with everything JG's said about the Recto in a live situation, but then again, I run mine VERY bright and without a big "scoop" - think the IE tone on "Alive In Athens", but with a little more "girth" to it. Of course, I also have a Triple, so I can pretty much overpower anything as long as I have enough cabs. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Don't get me wrong, I love the Soldanos, but I like the Recto rhythm tone better for what I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Michael, is there another guitarist in your band?

[/ QUOTE ]

Always. Of course, the "old guy" (Matt Crooks) was using a Road King with the EL34s on for his rhythm tone. In other cases I've seen/heard, it all depends on how much the Mesa player scoops it - or, more precisely, on if he can keep his hand off the bass knob. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Siggy, I am a fan of Rectifiers. My ex-bandmate would tear his hair out searching and tweaking his Dual Rectifier for that perfect 80's metal tone. Different venues, different room sizes, would all change his tone. All I had to do with my Marshall rig was plug in. I barely ever had to adjust anthing. I know fully well that a Rectifier can keep up with a Marshall. The problem is all the tweaking a retubing involved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Key word is 80's metal, i kinda went through the same thing, no matter how much you tweak a mesa will sound like a mesa and a marshall will sound like a marshall. What it comes down too is if you want a marshall get a marshall or a marshall clone, if you want a mesa get a mesa, anyone can play 80's metal on any type of amp, but if you are trying to match the tone exactly you are not gonna get that out of a mesa. I love the way a marshall sounds for 80's and rock and that is what i use for them. For balls out metal i plug into my recto.

[/ QUOTE ]

+1. You nailed it Siggy. Thats exactly what I was trying to say in my 9 paragraphs of dribble.

[Fragle]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

i'm playing what i'd call modern thrash (in the vein of the haunted mixed with slayer and testament), so i'm not really after an 80's power metal tone [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
endrik, that's the thing right there. you are going for wall of sound thing, as you're doing mostly groovy and chord oriented stuff. my music is all about fast single notes, often mixed up with palm muted stuff, dissonant chords (tritons, major and minor thirds), as well as the occasional chord work. this is why i need clarity.
michael, that's interesting, i didn't think of the recto as an amp that could do a convincing alive in athens tone. schaffers tone on that cd (he's on the left side btw) is a perfect example of in your face and tightness - to me.
that tone, mixed with something comparable to kreator-enemy of god, is quite close to what i'm looking for.
really, it's very interesting for me that you mention a recto in this context. strangely, i don't think the AIA tone is very bright?!

[eaeolian]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

[ QUOTE ]
+1. You nailed it Siggy. Thats exactly what I was trying to say in my 9 paragraphs of dribble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which would explain our disconnect. The Mesa can do the '80s tone, but why? If you want that, buy an 800 and put a SD-1 in front of it - or, if you want to spend more money, buy a Soldano or an Ecstacy.

[eaeolian]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

[ QUOTE ]
i'm playing what i'd call modern thrash (in the vein of the haunted mixed with slayer and testament), so i'm not really after an 80's power metal tone [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
endrik, that's the thing right there. you are going for wall of sound thing, as you're doing mostly groovy and chord oriented stuff. my music is all about fast single notes, often mixed up with palm muted stuff, dissonant chords (tritons, major and minor thirds), as well as the occasional chord work. this is why i need clarity.
michael, that's interesting, i didn't think of the recto as an amp that could do a convincing alive in athens tone. schaffers tone on that cd (he's on the left side btw) is a perfect example of in your face and tightness - to me.
that tone, mixed with something comparable to kreator-enemy of god, is quite close to what i'm looking for.
really, it's very interesting for me that you mention a recto in this context. strangely, i don't think the AIA tone is very bright?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Go to our site (in my sig) and listen to the "Trinity" songs - that's a 3 channel Triple. AIA was our reference disc when we got the guitar tones, and I think we pretty much nailed it.

[Fragle]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

i know your stuff, mike (and i like it very much btw).
well.....compared to AIA, i'd say your tone has more low mids, in general is a tad less bright, and the highs are SLIGHTLY fuzzier than AIA. i'd also say your tone isn't as tight.

i do not want to bash your sound here, really. i think it sounds good, but i don't think you've got AIA NAILED. close, yes, but not nailed [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

actually, when listening to AIA, i'd much rather put it into the modded marshall (+OD) ballpark.
iirc, schaffer used his old custom larry head, with a BBE in the loop, through a 1960A/B setup.
the lead dude (can't remember his name) apparently used a SLO for AIA?

[jgcable]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

Yea, that just shows how tone is so subjective. To me... the tone that Fragle and Michael use is a rhythm guitar players tone. I am a lead guitar player. I like my notes jumping out from every angle. I don't like playing with alot of bottom end (thats what the bass player is for), I love midrange, and I can't play with much compression in my notes. I don't like the slightest bit of scoopness because when I am ripping a fast solo I don't want to lose any notes in the mix. The tone you guys like (which I would define as Nu-Metal) is perfect for palm muting, chunking, triads, thirds etc... I see both of your points. I love listening to the guitar tone you guys have. It just doesn't work for the 80's type metal my band plays.

[Fragle]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

i'd not call my tone nu-metal at all. to me, nu-metal is a synonyme for fuzzy, loose, bottom heavy "wall of sound", scooped to hell sound.
sure, i like to chunk, i like to palm mute, but i also like defi-fuckin-nition [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
i can see your point, though. you're definitely describing a lead guitar players tone. if i had the cash for a multi channel (or even multi amp) setup, with dedicated and independent lead and rhythm channels, i'd certainly go for a similar tone for leads.
but, let's face it, like 90% of the time you're playing rhythm, so why not built your setup around that?
i'm a lead player by heart, i LOVE shredding. while my band does not have any songs without leads (thank god...), most of the time it's like 1 minute leads in a 6 minute song. go figure [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: i know i have issues....need more amp advice

Nu-Metal? I wouldn't say that.