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**Cleveland Metal** · 05-24-2003, 11:47 AM

Re: REALLY good article here...

Explains why your amp can sound so good in the bedroom at low volume, then at the gig it sounds like crap...

I love all the pyschoacoustics excuses. hehe...

Pretty simple... It sounds like crap at loud volumes because it's a Line 6!!!!

**rodrigo_echeverri** · 05-24-2003, 07:52 PM

Re: REALLY good article here...

[quote]Originally posted by Cleveland Metal:

I love all the pyschoacoustics excuses. hehe...

Pretty simple... It sounds like crap at loud volumes because it's a Line 6!!!!

[img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Wow!... Simon Fraser here in Vancouver... who would have thought!...

[ May 24, 2003, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: rodrigo_echeverri ]

**Twisteramps** · 05-24-2003, 09:40 PM

Re: REALLY good article here...

Originally posted by Cleveland Metal:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Explains why your amp can sound so good in the bedroom at low volume, then at the gig it sounds like crap...

I love all the pyschoacoustics excuses. hehe...

Pretty simple... It sounds like crap at loud volumes because it's a Line 6!!!! <hr /></blockquote>Well, don't know how deep ya read it but the 'sounds like crap' part is because of our ears, not the gear. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Pete

**Cleveland Metal** · 05-24-2003, 10:59 PM

Re: REALLY good article here...

I'm quite aware of that Pete. Been a tone freak for 25 years man and am VERY familiar with what they are speaking of. Don't underate me. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I'm quite understanding of the diferent perception of frequencies at increased levels. Hence my MIDI rig with multiple settings for different volumes etc.

I certainly don't own the rig I have because it's stylish or the in thing (it's neither) or because someone says it's the best (altgough I'm glad someone did turn me on to it.

I have it because it sounds the way it does. I'd have a Line 6 if it sounded good. At $1600 for a head that does it all, that's a deal. My pocket book AND my back would love it. However, the way the product stands now, my ears would hate me.

My tube stuff sounds fine at volume Pete. I have yet to hear a Line 6 product sound very good in a concert hall... They don't cut through the mix so well, and are not just not that pleasing.

I know you know all that... We've all been through that the conversation a hundred times etc...

**Twisteramps** · 05-24-2003, 11:31 PM

Re: REALLY good article here...

K, wondering why this took such a serious tone, but hey, it's all good. BTW, have you heard a vetta at stage volume? To judge line6 stuff by some of the early/cheaper products would be like judging a corvette from a chevette's performance.

An open mind is a good thing, whether it's tube, solid state, or hybrid amps.

Pete

**Firebird V** · 05-25-2003, 06:34 AM

Re: REALLY good article here...

I can't get the link open...??? DAMN! DAMN !!!! DAMN!!!! [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

**Cleveland Metal** · 05-25-2003, 09:26 AM

Re: REALLY good article here...

Yep, heard the Vetta quite a few times at large venues. With Mike Romeo playing it several of the times.

It's useable. Nothing to amazing or I'd own it. Even though Romeo gets them free, he's not all too impressed either and would rather use his tube MESAs...

Digital modeling amps just haven't got there yet.

**Fretburner** · 05-25-2003, 09:49 AM

Re: REALLY good article here...

Mmmmmmmm here we go again with the Line 6 gear. Just saw Lynch Mob last week. George had (2) Line 6 POD pro's in his rack. Sounded pretty F***** good to me. I've been playing for 29 years and a tone freak also. I love my tube amp, but also like the Line 6 stuff too! Hell, a good player can make a piece of sh*t sound good! [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

If it sounds good to you USE IT! Don't let other people judge your sound for you!

**Cleveland Metal** · 05-25-2003, 10:50 AM

Re: REALLY good article here...

Of course I would use it you big silly... IF it sounded good and to my ears it doesn't. And apparently to a lot of other guys. I saw Micheal Angelo playing a Line 6 after his tube head popped one night and said he absolutely hated it.

Lotsa these guys use them because they get them free and don't care to abuse their nice tube stuff. I know that's why Romeo is using them...

I know what I like, and I don't like that. We obviously have different views on what good tone is...

The Line 6 stuff does record fairly well I'll admit...

Hey, if you like it, use it...

As for George "gear ho" Lynch, he'll play whatever someone gives him. And I'm sure he does OK with any of it.

**Fretburner** · 05-25-2003, 01:38 PM

Re: REALLY good article here...

Originally posted by Cleveland Metal:
Welllll, George has endorsed so much stuff that he doesn't "really" use. Gotta pay the bills etc... He endorsed all kinds of stuff and when I saw pics his studio he mostly had high end tube stuff...

Can't always believe everything ya see, hehe.. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

You're right! BUT George was switching channels quite often that night with his LINE 6 FLOORBOARD. I SEE I BELIEVE! ha ha

**Fretburner** · 05-26-2003, 12:03 AM

Re: REALLY good article here...

Cleve, Well said, I'll agree to most of that! But you have to admit, Geo is pretty fussy with his tone and I don't think he would use a pre-amp in a live situation just because the factory gave it to him. I'm not here to argue with anyone, been down that road and it does not accomplish squat. Just stating facts.

Keep on pickin!

JB [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

**Cleveland Metal** · 05-26-2003, 12:20 AM

Re: REALLY good article here...

Welllll, George has endorsed so much stuff that he doesn't "really" use. Gotta pay the bills etc... He endorsed all kinds of stuff and when I saw pics his studio he mostly had high end tube stuff...

Seen lotsa endorsees on stage with the endorsed products, but, actually playing through something else sitting in the background.

Scott Ian for one. Endorsed lotsa stuff (recently Randall), and had his Marshall Jubilee or a Bogner in the background that he actually was playing through... Can't always believe everything ya see, hehe.. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

**StuTDavis** · 05-26-2003, 12:30 AM

Re: REALLY good article here...

I'd really like to get the POD PRO into my rack with my other goodies and see what I could do with the sound. In their stock form (as well as other Line 6 gear) I just can never get anywhere near the sound I want out of one. No big surprise, since they are "amp modelers", and I wouldn't get anywhere near the sound I want to hear out of the amps they model without a lot of outboard gear, anyway hehehe.

Some players are more into straight-tube sound, they like the sound coming out of an amp head or combo by itself, and are happy with that. Others like the harshness of solid state over tubes (I guess) like a Randall head. And some of us are somewhere in between.

In that sense, I would expect Cleve and I might be on the same page to some extent with the Line 6 gear. We both go for a real tube BASIS sound with a lot of extra crap to make it sound way different. I think it's easy for us to kind of expect more out of these Line 6 units because they are digital and have the potential to have so much more in them than they really do. But, all the goal with them really is, is to model a bunch of amps, with a little effects capability thrown in. They don't model a BBE, they don't model a parametric EQ before and after the preamp, they don't model an overdrive pedal boosting everything etc.

So, when you consider that guys like Cleve and I don't usually go for those amps the Line 6s model as they are in their STOCK sound, it makes perfect sense to me that he and I wouldn't like a Line 6 from the outset. If you don't like the real thing by itself, chances are you are not going to like an imitation of that thing by itself, right? Now, from there, it could depend on how well a Line 6 meshes with other outboard units, whether you can "push" the front end at all (what's there to push?), and how it interacts with the environment at whatever level you might be using...the same factors important in any unit we might use.

Since I don't require high volume levels, I might have a little more hope in liking the sound, modified by other stuff, than Cleve. It's probably likely I could get a sound I at least liked (if not loved) after some outboard gear tweaking. The most questionable part, to me, would be having the "feel" that I like from my setup. To me, a setup can sound as wonderful as possible, but if it doesn't have that feel, it's completely worthless to me, and I won't enjoy playing it.

But, I have to say, I LOVE the idea of these modeling units. Tons of amps in one box--YES! I have the Egnater M4, a tube preamp with 4 modules that do exactly that--model tube amps--hehehe. If I could get 32 of those suckers in there, I'd be one happy mutha! HAHA! The difference is, the M4 had a much more natural and realistic tube sound and feel "basis", for me, to work with, than I'd heard from any Line 6 gear. So, once I tried it, I felt confident I could end up with what I wanted, and that's what happened...eventually hehe.

But, I'd still like to slap the POD Pro in my rack. Or especially that new rack Behringer V-AMP rack mounted unit...eventually. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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REALLY good article here...

REALLY good article here...

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