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  1. #1

    Default Henrik's Audiozone.dk website is slowly dying :( Jackson/Charvel Wikia never launched

    I know Henrik hasn't updated or maintained his http://audiozone.dk/ website in quite some time, and while there were some dead links and unfinished pages at the time he abandoned the resource, at least most of the crucial information was left intact for posterity... at least, that's what I thought.

    I recently noticed that the giant lists of Jackson and Charvel guitar models (with accompanying images) at the bottom of the following two pages have now disappeared.

    Jackson Professional Series 1990-1995: http://audiozone.dk/index-filer/jack...ries_1990-1995
    Charvel Japan 1986-1991: http://audiozone.dk/index-filer/char...apan_1986-1991

    Those lists were very useful for model identification and I referred to those lists frequently. Now they're gone.

    Thankfully, the Internet Archive Wayback Machine (https://archive.org/) captured most of what was lost, minus the images of each guitar model that appear when you hover over the model name. I suppose I can live without direct images, since it's only one more separate step to enter a model name into Google Images for identification.

    Below are the archived links we can use, preserved in time:

    Jackson Professional Series 1990-1995: https://web.archive.org/web/20180831...ofessional.php
    Charvel Japan 1986-1991: https://web.archive.org/web/20180831...rt-guitars.php

    Another page I frequently reference is his Tremolo Info Project page: http://audiozone.dk/index-filer/TremoloInfoProject.htm I fear the day when that page gets ravaged by time.

    This got me thinking. The Ibanez community has a great comprehensive Wikia (http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/Ibanez_Wiki) that is frequently updated, highly accurate, and constantly referenced in the Ibanez community. It's basically like the Ibanez guitar bible. Why don't we have one for Jacksons and Charvels? The Jackson/Charvel Wikia (http://jacksoncharvel.wikia.com/wiki...n_Charvel_Wiki) seems to be a sister site to the Ibanez Wikia but virtually neglected and never seemed to launch. Was anyone planning on doing anything with it? Given it's a wiki (ie - collaborative), it doesn't have to be one person doing all the work. Obviously the scope of one-off custom J/C models is too broad and ambitious to capture in a wiki, but documenting the production models and limited runs would be handy and a very solid start.

    I personally have limited knowledge compared to our panel of experts and historians here on JCF. Most of my knowledge comes from reading JCF (still the best resource, but it relies on interaction and the information is often scattered), the preserved catalogs on the Jackson and Charvel websites, and Henrik and AlienXnation's (http://charvelusa.com/models.html) websites. I have zero experience editing a wiki, I would like to offer help to preserve info for the coming generations, and I would be willing to pitch in and help learn to build a wiki. Maybe this is enough to get the ball rolling, and others with more expertise can fill in my gaps on an ongoing basis?

    Maybe it's pointless? Even when I log into JCF, I am frequently the only registered member logged in at a given time. That suggests occasional visits by people, and the status quo is sufficient to tackle those once-in-a-blue-moon questions that get asked.

    If we do build that wiki, maybe Mudlark and Johnnyryche would be pressed to finally divulge their list of import serial numbers, for the greater good.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by Number Of The Priest; 11-29-2018 at 08:47 AM.

  2. #2
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    I guess it's symptomatic of the current time, where facebook groups are taking over from forums etc. I guess a JC wiki would be cool, but as long as the legacy catalogues are available, that kind of covers the same ground no?
    Popular is not the same as good
    Rare is not the same as valuable
    Worth is what someone will pay, not what you want to get

  3. #3

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    I noticed the same thing... Sad really. That is in my opinion the best site of the two I know of. His and AlienXNation's www.charvelusa.com But as you've said, more and more keep slowly disappearing. I was going to show my friend how I knew what his guitar was by his lists and they were mysteriously gone. It's a shame.

  4. #4

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    I noticed the same while going to reference the charvel model comparison chart.

    I would love to help rebuild this as his website has been a great tool for me over the years.

  5. #5
    JCF (I have no life)Member xenophobe's Avatar
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    Someone just needs to save it all to local HTML, reformat it and publish it somewhere.

    We used to have a Mother of All Information Pages. One moderator here kept all the data and was supposed to put it back up but failed miserably. Nobody cares.
    The 2nd Amendment: America's Original Homeland Defense.

  6. #6

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    I like the wiki idea. Ibanez's wiki is pretty great. I bet we could make it happen with the few dedicated users here we have. I'd love to help however.

  7. #7

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    I actually had a look at the jackson/charvel wiki after I read this yesterday.
    I removed some dead links and changed the page or ing paragraph for now.
    I'm willing to help anyway I can.

  8. #8

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    Tossing out some thoughts here. Thanks to those who feel energized by the prospect of building something great and new. Trying to consider multiple perspectives before sinking time and effort into anything. In the past, I contemplated building an info page for the 1998 Shannon Soloist; while it never materialized, perhaps I could make one on the Wikia as a sort of "practice run" for me to learn how to create a page on a Wikia, as well as a "prototype" or "sample" that sets the tone and style for future pages we build together, if we decide to go that route.

    Quote Originally Posted by neilli View Post
    I guess it's symptomatic of the current time, where facebook groups are taking over from forums etc. I guess a JC wiki would be cool, but as long as the legacy catalogues are available, that kind of covers the same ground no?
    I hate to keep comparing our community to that of Ibanez, but they also have plenty of archived catalog scans (http://www.ibanezrules.com/catalogs/index.htm and http://www.ibanez.com/anniversary/index.html) and yet they still built a comprehensive Wikia that is revered and referenced frequently. I suspect the abundance of catalogs probably made it easier to assemble their Wikia.

    Quote Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
    Someone just needs to save it all to local HTML, reformat it and publish it somewhere.
    I realize Henrik isn't really around any longer, but would this be considered theft? I do like this idea though, as this seems like the simplest stop-gap measure compared to the massive effort needed to construct a Wikia virtually from scratch. And if it suffices, it might even be more than just a temporary stop-gap, as long as we can find a stable host that won't mysteriously lose content like Henrik's site.

    Quote Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
    We used to have a Mother of All Information Pages. One moderator here kept all the data and was supposed to put it back up but failed miserably. Nobody cares.
    Wow, I forgot about the MOAIP. Is there anything of this left intact that we could see or use? Where is it?

  9. #9

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    The beauty of all the information we need, is that it's all available online. The time consuming part is gathering it and organizing it in one place.

    Between the knowledge of the guys here and the readily available information online you can create a very thorough resource for anyone to use.
    If it's done on the Wiki you can have multiple admins and have a hard copy backup incase anything were to happen.
    The information is safer if it's in multiple hands as well as online.
    Also the wiki let's everyone contribute.

    I'm gathering up videos, interviews, pages, as well as all the guitars ive recently asked about, purchased, and gotten serial numbers from.

    Question is, do we work off the existing wiki page with no admin rights, or build our own page from scratch so we have admin rights?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavymetal2000 View Post
    The beauty of all the information we need, is that it's all available online. The time consuming part is gathering it and organizing it in one place.

    Between the knowledge of the guys here and the readily available information online you can create a very thorough resource for anyone to use.
    If it's done on the Wiki you can have multiple admins and have a hard copy backup incase anything were to happen.
    The information is safer if it's in multiple hands as well as online.
    Also the wiki let's everyone contribute.
    I wholeheartedly agree with all of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavymetal2000 View Post
    Question is, do we work off the existing wiki page with no admin rights, or build our own page from scratch so we have admin rights?
    Wait, so even if we edited the existing Wikia as I originally envisioned, we don't have admin rights? Who does? That means there's a difference between editors and administrators?

    I don't suppose it would be much trouble to start a new one, given there is practically nothing on the existing one and we would have full ownership/admin rights. But they do have the logical web address, and are practically "squatting" on it.

  11. #11

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    From what I gather so far we wouldn't, but possibly could.

    When I started editing the wiki I got a message from one of the wiki admins, not the jackson page admin but an actual site admin for the wiki as a whole.

    He mentioned if I needed help with anything to let him know.
    Maybe theres a way to transfer it?
    I'll ask him. It would be nice to have that actual web address.

  12. #12
    JCF (I have no life)Member xenophobe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Number Of The Priest View Post
    I realize Henrik isn't really around any longer, but would this be considered theft? I do like this idea though, as this seems like the simplest stop-gap measure compared to the massive effort needed to construct a Wikia virtually from scratch. And if it suffices, it might even be more than just a temporary stop-gap, as long as we can find a stable host that won't mysteriously lose content like Henrik's site.
    As long as you reformat it and credit him for the source, I don't see why there would be any problems.

    I'd say PM Tekky for the MOAIP data, but he probably deleted it or lost it by now. I originally offered to do it, but he was too egotistical to let anyone else do it. And then he didn't do it.
    The 2nd Amendment: America's Original Homeland Defense.

  13. #13

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    So I put in a request to adopt the Jackson Charvel wiki.
    It says to allow up to 6 days for a response so I'm waiting.
    Mean time, if there is anyone willing to volunteer with me to be a caretaker let me know. It would be nice to have a few at least who would be willing to.
    Anyone can edit it, even if you're not "staff". So if you feel like contributing but don't want the burden of needing to care for the wiki as a whole there is no worries.

  14. #14

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    Sounds great, keep us updated! And you guys are right, the Ibby one is pretty great as well.

    The comparison chart alone on audiozone was something I referenced frequently.

    EDIT: http://jacksoncharvel.wikia.com/wiki...n_Charvel_Wiki
    Last edited by kamanda; 12-06-2018 at 11:39 AM.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
    As long as you reformat it and credit him for the source, I don't see why there would be any problems.

    I'd say PM Tekky for the MOAIP data, but he probably deleted it or lost it by now. I originally offered to do it, but he was too egotistical to let anyone else do it. And then he didn't do it.
    Thanks. That makes total sense. Henrik's spirit and hard work can live on, if we do decide to resurrect and revitalize his website elsewhere.

    I reached out to Tekky via Facebook Messenger this morning. Even if he doesn't come through, oh well, no worries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavymetal2000 View Post
    So I put in a request to adopt the Jackson Charvel wiki.
    It says to allow up to 6 days for a response so I'm waiting.
    Mean time, if there is anyone willing to volunteer with me to be a caretaker let me know. It would be nice to have a few at least who would be willing to.
    Anyone can edit it, even if you're not "staff". So if you feel like contributing but don't want the burden of needing to care for the wiki as a whole there is no worries.
    I have to hand it to you and your intrepid spirit taking initiative like this. Is there a difference between caretaker and writer/editor? My written English is strong, but my computer savvy is not quite there (though I'm willing to learn). For example, I can write a bulk of the model descriptions in a very tight, controlled, consistent manner, and can find the images for the corresponding models in different colors and finishes. However, I have no idea when it comes to putting all that up in a web/Wikia format that looks neat and organized, unless it's totally WYSIWYG and plug-and-play.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamanda View Post
    The comparison chart alone on audiozone was something I referenced frequently.
    Which comparison chart were you referencing?
    Last edited by Number Of The Priest; 12-06-2018 at 12:39 PM.

  16. #16

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    Every founder of a community is automatically granted*admin*access on the wiki they founded, in addition to bureaucrat status.Bureaucrats can grant other users bureaucrat, admin, rollback, and content moderators access.Admins can grant other users discussion moderator and chat moderator access.You can become an admin in an inactive wiki through*Adoption Requests.

    So the founder I would imagine wont change if we adopt his page. Only way we can have founder status is to create a wiki from scratch. Which isn't out of the question, but his has the ideal name. Feel free to discuss, either method I think is a good option.

    Admins have the ability to overrule edits, remove wiki edit access if necessary, and have have unhindered access to the wikis core as well as some other things. You're also responsible in a sense for staying in touch with the wiki and monitoring it to an extent.

    As for adding content, forgoing admin status and simply creating an account and joining the wiki is plenty good as well and you will be capable of editing and adding new content as you see fit.

    In terms of how you add content it's kinda middle of the road difficulty. They've created a mostly user friendly editing mode that utilizes some html but they help you along with it quite a bit. If you're editing a fair bit and practicing you'll pick it up quick. Also the beauty of the wiki is you can create a page, set it up as you see fit, save it, then view it instantly.
    Don't like the layout? Move some things around and check k it again.

    I really like what Ibanez did on there wiki with the portal section.
    Instead of clicking through 10 links to see one guitar, it works in a hierarchy system using expand and subtract to dive into the information all on one page.

  17. #17
    JCF (I have no life)Member VitaminG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
    As long as you reformat it and credit him for the source, I don't see why there would be any problems.

    I'd say PM Tekky for the MOAIP data, but he probably deleted it or lost it by now. I originally offered to do it, but he was too egotistical to let anyone else do it. And then he didn't do it.
    IIRC it wasn't Tekky. It was Jeremy that wouldn't let others help with the MOAIP. A lot of people offered to help but he insisted on maintaining complete control
    Hail yesterday

  18. #18

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    Thanks for the crash course Heavymetal2000!

    If we were to create our own account, a logical alternative name would be jacksoncharvelguitars.wikia.com.

    Thinking out loud again. You mentioned you placed a request to adopt the existing Wikia. Are you in touch with the original founder, or do who know who it is? If we create a bunch of new content on "his" Wikia, and he sees it as a "hijack" of "his" Wikia, is there the risk that he can pull the plug on the account and kill all our progress?

    This is worst case scenario, and really the only advantage I currently see with the existing Wikia not being founded by "one of us" JCFers. Who knows, maybe the founder is even a JCFer who simply abandoned his online presence.

    At least if we start our own Wikia, and assign a longtime trusted JCFer to be the founder, I feel more trusting if it's fully owned and controlled by known parties here. Example: Having someone legitimate like toejam be the founder in name only (he's the most active JCF Admin), if nothing else just to lend credence and permanence to the project because he ain't going nowhere (we love you toejam LOL) and then longtime/knowledgeable/enthusiastic guys like Heavymetal2000, EntrailsOfU, kamanda, and I (and anyone else who wants to help) actually doing the heavy lifting (content creation, writeups, formatting, assembly, etc.).

    Also having our own Wikia would mitigate the scenario described by VitaminG where not one person TIED TO JCF retains sole control of content created ON JCF PROPER (as I recall the MOAIP was supposed to be hosted on the JCF website, owned by Sandman0170/Jeremy). Well, by essence, a Wikia is collaborative in nature anyway, but also the Wikia would be "independent" of JCF (and not needing to be hosted by Jeremy on JCF like the MOAIP was supposed to be). This would give more control for content creators, and enable process without administrative holdups.

    The original founder going rogue and pulling the plug might be a moot point if we (as "beaurocrats" or "admins") can plead with Wikia.com to overrule and reinstate the content. I figure that nothing on the internet is ever deleted forever and the content can be restored.

    This sounds intriguing enough that I will register an account on the existing Wikia and start exploring.
    Last edited by Number Of The Priest; 12-07-2018 at 08:32 AM.

  19. #19

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    I'm definitely open to starting a brand new one from scratch as well.
    I like the name alternative as well!
    If Toejam is up for holding the founder position I personally have no qualms with that whatsoever, keep in mind though that founder plays no real role in controlling the wiki beyond assigning its first bureaucrat, it is simple a name plate for the person who brought the wiki to life. All users with bureaucratic rights will have the same power.

    If this is the case, I can dismiss the adoption request and we can get to work right away. We'll just need Toejam to let us know if he accepts, and create the wiki's opening page.
    After that he can assign the bureaucrats etc when he so chooses and we can starting creating content.

  20. #20

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    Oh! So any of the bureaucrats could consequently nix the page. In that case, it might not matter who owns it (the mysterious original owner, or toejam/JCFer if we started our own).

    I created my account (Number Of The Priest) and practiced creating a page. http://jacksoncharvel.wikia.com/wiki/Shannon_Soloist It's rough and I can't understand why my Years field is a different color than the rest of the table, and why my paragraph breaks for the different finishes aren't manifesting as actual paragraph breaks. I have a basic knowledge of HTML (enough to create basic webpages as if I were doing an amateurish high school project page in 1996) and looking at the source code I cannot figure out why these errors appear. Maybe I should just be a content creator and leave it to someone else to clean up my work I swear I want to learn! I just want to emulate the Ibanez Wikia!

    EDIT: An update from Tekky. He may be able to retrieve and send me the MOAIP files from his now-corrupted, now-deleted website, but if not, we can get by without. There is plenty of content in the catalogs, Henrik & AlienXnation's sites, and the JCF to keep us busy for a good long while.
    Last edited by Number Of The Priest; 12-07-2018 at 11:26 AM.

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