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Thread: Fractal or EVH

  1. #21
    JCF Member pianoguyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippietim View Post
    you’re going to have to spend some initial time finding the or creating the presets you want in any unit.
    Modelers, if you think of them in the same way you think of physical amps and effects...

    Using my HD500 as an example -
    Imagine that, the night before a big showcase, your house burned down and you lost all of your gear. The good folks at "guitars r us" were going to hook you up with gear for the show. They gave you a list of 120 amps (two each of 60 different amps). 34 cabs (two each of 17 different cabs). 16 mics (two each of 8 different mics). And they gave you 904 pedals (eight each of 113 different pedals).

    And they said to you "you can choose up to 2 amps, 2 cabs, 2 mics, and 8 effects".
    They also included an fx loop in case you grabbed some gear from a buddy that you wanted to add to the chain. And they provided enough wiring so that you can run things in stereo or mono, or even run a dual path.


    You would be overwhelmed with choices.


    Well, that is exactly what my modeler is.
    35 years ago, I spent 8 years building the perfect rig and dialing in fantastic tones. And I spent the next 23 years using that same rig and those same tones.
    Then I made the switch to a modeler as a "full rig replacement". Can you blame me for taking six months to tweak it before I took it out of my home.
    Last edited by pianoguyy; 08-25-2018 at 10:35 PM.

  2. #22

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    I would go with the Fractal. I've always loved these and have never had a problem getting the sound I want out of them. Plus, there's always a benefit of not having to travel with so many pedals all the time. I figure if it's good enough for Vai to tour with, it will work for me.
    "Ozzy leaned forward and poked me in the eye. Then he said life's tough get used to it. That was the best guitar lesson that I got from the boss." -Zakk Wylde

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgcable View Post
    In a one guitar band with a good PA they sound great. In a 2 guitar band when the other guitar player is using a GOOD tube amp like a 5150-III or a Rectifier or a good Marshall.. the modeling software amp sound is pretty hard to hear. It just doesn't have that presence. You can't feel it. Other than that.. the tone is awesome.
    I've been dealing with this lately. I've got a few great sounding patches that I use through a Mesa 2X12 (no FRFR just a real cab)
    When the other guitarist is not playing I am nice and out front, sits nicely on top of the bass and drummer/vocalist, when he joins in with his 1X12 open back Egnator combo, I may as well just pretend I'm playing.
    I completely disappear
    I've gone back to using my JVM with the Axe Fx in 4CM because I go through a few effects during our sets. Really bums me out as the All modeling rig weighs nothing. a 100 watt JVM weighs plenty.
    the JVM just takes up a lot more sonic space than the Axe FX does.
    If this is our perdition, will you walk with me?

  4. #24
    JCF (I have no life)Member jgcable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmanick View Post
    I've been dealing with this lately. I've got a few great sounding patches that I use through a Mesa 2X12 (no FRFR just a real cab)
    When the other guitarist is not playing I am nice and out front, sits nicely on top of the bass and drummer/vocalist, when he joins in with his 1X12 open back Egnator combo, I may as well just pretend I'm playing.
    I completely disappear
    I've gone back to using my JVM with the Axe Fx in 4CM because I go through a few effects during our sets. Really bums me out as the All modeling rig weighs nothing. a 100 watt JVM weighs plenty.
    the JVM just takes up a lot more sonic space than the Axe FX does.
    I don't know if there is any way around it. In a 1 guitar band.... Fractal, Kemper, Helix etc.. are all outstanding. I will be the first to say the tone is absolutely amazing. Perfect. Real... blah blah blah... Now... take my little Marshall DSL20H and a 1 or 2 12 cab and put it on the stage with the player using the modeling or profiling rig and POOF.... he disappears into thin air. Even when mic'd. It doesn't matter if the modeling/profiling rig is running direct, or if it has a FRFR onstage or if its running through the effects loop of a tube amp.

  5. #25
    JCF (I have no life)Member jgcable's Avatar
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    I am absolutely going to go Helix eventually. I just need to be sold a little more live.

  6. #26
    JCF Member PowerTube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axewielder View Post
    ..... I'm mostly looking at this from the lens of the audience, but haven't like 80% of live hard rock bands always sounded like muddy dogshit? Am I the bad guy here? In my book, any technology that can help clean up that fucking mess is a good thing.
    Pretty much. I hear guys obsess about their "tone" when run across a live Marshall 100-watt head in front of an audience, with a pounding drummer and massive bass wattage.

    I seriously doubt that the audience cares if their fretboard is maple or ebony.
    Member - National Sarcasm Society

    "Oh, sure. Like we need your support."

  7. #27

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    jgcable: In my experience the Kemper cuts as good as any amp, even in a twin guitar band with a tube amp. I guess a Marshall may be more fail safe compared to the many crappy presets/profiles available though. Have you tried a current top tier modeler in a live situation yourself?

  8. #28
    JCF Member pianoguyy's Avatar
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    Using my L6 gear (HD 500/500x/Pro/Pro X) as an example -

    Many people have said the same thing about it being lost in the mix.
    But many others stacked up the EQs in their patches to take care of it. But then, with the recent firmware upgrades, the addition of a Global Equalizer into the software seemed to solve the problem without needing to waste available slots.
    If you dial out some of the ugly frequencies, you stand out in the mix.

    If your pa is a pro rig, I would assume you are using graphic equalizers instead of B/M/T knobs, this would be able to do the same thing - dial out the bad stuff.

  9. #29

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    Getting lost in the mix has a lot more to do with EQ then if it is an amp or modeler.. a full stack(any amp type) can get covered up buy a combo amp if the combo amp is in a feq range between the other members in the group and the stack is not. If there are 2 guitars in the band, they should set there tones together in the live setting( I know it will never happen that 2 guitarists with egos will give in take for the good of an over all tone). If your tone sounds killer by its self, it probably will not cut with the group.

  10. #30
    JCF Member pianoguyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
    Getting lost in the mix has a lot more to do with EQ then if it is an amp or modeler..
    Sorry, I guess this isn't the L6 forum. We're lacking some information here. My bad.

    For whatever reason, there are some ugly unheard frequencies in the HD units, particularly when you go without a guitar cab. No one would really design their tone taking them out because you can't hear them. But if you take them out, you sit much better.

    So, for these people above talking about their modeler not being able to keep up in a 2 guitar band, unheard frequencies could be the problem.

  11. #31

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    I have not played in a 2 guitar band in a long time. When I did years ago, I was often finding myself lost in the mix. I used to think it was my cheap solid state amps. Now I know much was due to having "scooped mids" disease. I sounded great at home playing to the tape. In the band, my volume (or now we know it was EQ) could not compete some other guy's Marshall and his mids.

    I won't be buying any new modeler anytime soon. Not because of concerns of tone or presence in the mix. All the modeling gear I like, is beyond what spare change I have. Also, the older I get, the less I enjoy tweaking digital screens or software to play guitar.

  12. #32

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    Of course it is not only the other guitar you compete with. Drums, Bass, Keys. Every thing needs its own sonic space to be heard with out using tons of Wattage.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by pianoguyy View Post
    Sorry, I guess this isn't the L6 forum. We're lacking some information here. My bad.

    My post was not pointed at your posts( at least I did not mean for it to be). no apology needed.

  14. #34

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    I'm kind of curious to play through an EVH head myself...have been eyeing up the 50 watt version. But, I just don't know if I need anything besides my SLO or Hot Rod 25 amp head as they will always be my main amps and I don't want to start accumulating things I only turn on once in a while. How does the EVH compare to Soldano overdrive? To me in clips it sounds raspier?

  15. #35
    JCF Member pianoguyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
    My post was not pointed at your posts( at least I did not mean for it to be). no apology needed.
    I did take it as a response to my post. But, even if it wasn't, my follow up post was needed. This is the Jackson page. We have Jackson knowledge. Not everyone here knows about the unheard ugly frequencies of L6 gear the way they do on the L6 page. The same as the L6 users probably don't understand when a Jackson user says "clear coat issue".

    Of course, the other way to look at it is....
    I have spoken to some L6 users who have no idea that they could hook their units up to a computer and get updates or backup their settings.
    So, really, some people are seriously blind with their gear information. Sometimes we just need to talk at basic levels and not assume that anyone knows anything.

  16. #36
    JCF (I have no life)Member jgcable's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocksoldier View Post
    jgcable: In my experience the Kemper cuts as good as any amp, even in a twin guitar band with a tube amp. I guess a Marshall may be more fail safe compared to the many crappy presets/profiles available though. Have you tried a current top tier modeler in a live situation yourself?
    Yes.... Line 6 Helix. Fantastic piece of gear but it was a little hard to hear live with the other guitar player using a Peavey 6505+ 1 x 12 combo mic'd.
    Let me be clear about this.... the new top tier modelers are like nothing anyone has heard before.
    Heck.. the Boss Katana 100 is absolutely outstanding live. Every time I use that little 100w 1 x 12 Solid State modeling combo I get compliments and I have a smile on my face and its not even close to how good the Helix or Kemper is.
    What about the Blue G rig? Holy crap does that sound good.

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