Help improving speed and accuracy

[Cliff]

Hey Anders,

3: Not sure I agree with this. In my experience, it can take many days to 'master' something, so for me adding one thing a day wouldn't make sense
4: Something I'm trying to do more now than I used to.
6: I wish

I think some techniques do take a long time to master and to bring up to speed. Recently I've been trying to concentrate on three of those: alternate picking, including string switching; legato; and sweep picking. I'm currently thinking I'm more aligned with point 4 that you make, so I've spent the last week just concentrating on my left hand, which I believe is currently the weak spot. Much as I love sweep picking, I think I need to be better at some basic stuff first.

[RR2772]

3: Well it all depends on what you want to master and accomplish for the day. Big goals or small goals. It works for me. Though I do go back and brush up if needed. Usually a work up to speed problem.
4: When you are not sure of where you are and what you can do with your guitar skills then you got a lot to work at. I can recall back 2001 my rhytm guitarist and lead singer saying to me: These bar chords are difficult some times. My reply: You are not the only one. These days bar chords are not a problem. I can and have been too comfortable with my style for a decade or so. Keeping the Troy and Yngwie style on less focus but everything else I wanted to learn I can do like the Hendrix and Metallica stuff + getting into improvising all the time.

6: Low expectation will get you no where in life. Also if you don't believe it to happend then this thread is going to be longer.

My current focus has been on the SM exercises starting with lefthand number 1. Today I am at 7 allready at 160 bpm. I have been playing that one forever so worked up the speed. 1-5 is interesting as my lefthand is a lot more smoother when I go from one to the other. When I then try Yngwie licks I play them more fluid like. I am still working slowly on Far beyond the sun. I got 3 sweep licks so far and slowly working them up to speed and getting used to it! This point I think is very important. If you do not have the habit (mechanics) of playing it in your mind then you got problems. I play them one by one and work them from 80 bpm to 120 bpm then a break. The next day I work from 120 and up. This works for me. I got no problems with loosing speed over night.

As for the order of exercises in SM I think Troy is right on the money. Master one pr day should not be to troublesome as they build on each other as you go through them and that is why some of the later exercises are not that easy to play as you need to have the mechanics in your skills. Ok Flight and that classical piece will take longer but we will see how that goes.

I do have a plan for the next video comming along. It could be sometime next week.

[blackhatch]

Hey Anders,

3: Not sure I agree with this. In my experience, it can take many days to 'master' something, so for me adding one thing a day wouldn't make sense
4: Something I'm trying to do more now than I used to.
6: I wish

I think some techniques do take a long time to master and to bring up to speed. Recently I've been trying to concentrate on three of those: alternate picking, including string switching; legato; and sweep picking. I'm currently thinking I'm more aligned with point 4 that you make, so I've spent the last week just concentrating on my left hand, which I believe is currently the weak spot. Much as I love sweep picking, I think I need to be better at some basic stuff first.

it's been so long since the last time i logged in, this thread will be infinite hahah

Cliff. Practice this

http://janihatesyouall.blogspot.com/...-and-shit.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVKCDWA_rxo goto 8:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=963C4qPwmSs goto 3:40

those exercises formed me as a guitar player, i know they are sick but as jani always says, use a fucking metronome

u have any new video? youtube.com/user/bhzrdrs4/videos watch my past videos i sucked so hard before i was able to play fast stuff, had this face for many years :think: haha

cya

[Cliff]

Hey Blackhatch! Good to hear from you again. It's very inspiring to hear how much you've improved on you recent stuff vs the old stuff. Great work. I'm not going to try and learn any new exercises at the moment, but I will take the advice to play what I have cleanly and accurately before pushing the speed.

Anders - looking forward to the next video. I don't have anything new to record at the moment.

[RR2772]

It will be SM exercises mostly from number 1 and forward. Maybe some other stuff too.

[RR2772]

It looks like the next video will be shot tomorrow. I still got amp trouble and I will be playing RR2772. My Marshall combo is in the shop so I am stuck with the Dean Markley I-20 signature head and Marshall 1922 cab sound. It sounds good enough for a video and showing my progress for my lefthand with the SM exercises.

I am at number exercise 14 currently but it is a very good workout owerall and I keep playing all of them so I get used to it. So stay tuned!

How is it going with your progress? What are you up to?

[Cliff]

Looking forward to hearing it.

I've been working on exercise 35, but *very* slowly, while trying to lift my fingers off the strings as little as possible. Then a little bit of scales all over the fretboard, again slowly and with as little finger motion as possible.

[ginsambo]

Hey Cliff. Thought I would just add a random notion that I discovered just now.

I have had trouble picking super fast and accurately on the low and the middle strings, so I always hammered them instead. I analysed my technique and realised that my hand was all in the wrong position for the lower and mid strings for my wrist to be able to pick fluidly according to the way I do it on the high strings, it was all cramped up. S

I am working on moving my forearm way back when picking the lower strings. I think you covered this, but I totally ignored it. There is no other way to do it accurately and cleanly in a metal style, less I go all SRV on the situation which works on my strat but not with a fast and well executed metal style and isn't fast enough anyway.

To pick accurately and in time I find I have to have my hand and wrist in the same position, no matter how high up the strings I am. Doesn't matter if I am near the bridge or the neck, but the wrist postion has to be identical always. Previously I thought my crappier picking on the lower and middle two strings was down to the strings resonating more or my fretting or hand position being weak or some other reason, but it is pretty obvious to me now.

Out of curiosity, I just wonder - are there any two sets of strings where you find it easy to pick really fast and accurately on whilst alternating between the two? Say a simple E 1-2-3 / A 1-2-3-2-1 / E 3-2-1-2-3 / A 1-2-3 / D 1-2-3-2-1 / A 3-2-1-2-3 / D 1-2-3 etc. thing?

Not saying it is, but it may be as simple as adjusting your forearm and hand position to repeat the technique on the rest of em, before you get to string skipping exercises. If there are, then what I did is use the fingers I am most familiar with, ie 1st, 2nd and 3rd and repeat the phrases on the middle and low strings. For me, it took about half an hour to tighten up my technique and only once I was sure it wasn't my picking that was at fault, I started with the pinky and the string skipping etc.

I would say until you have this 1-2-3 and back alternating between strings all the way up the strings, using your easiest to fret fingers totally figured out at light speed and cleanly executed, I would not learn anything else. You don't literally have to play 1-2-3 frets or you could, or go 1-2-4 as the fretting in the same position on all strings, but can use that on a scale as a pattern also.

I only say this, because this is something that I always overlooked, as personally I hate the tone of fast picking, but it has been nagging me for a long time, so I want to get the picking more accurate now once and for all and because my fretting fingere are pretty strong, I'm staying with the same exercise until it hits 3 billion bps until I take my forearm movement for granted.

Also, once you do move on, you gotta be able to play whatever it is you are picking cleanly and loudly with just your fretting hand before even thinking about picking it IMO.

So now I vaguely know what you mean from pages back, it is all about forearm movement. Yes.

[Cliff]

That's really cool that you found a way to improve. I've heard different people say different things about whether forearm movement should be involved like this. I tried, very briefly, to keep my right hand in the one position as I crossed strings, then went back to the way you just described - it definitely works better for me.

I feel like I'm pretty happy with my picking now. I haven't timed it recently, but I'm pretty sure I can pick 12 notes per second comfortably on a single string. Crossing strings I'm a fair bit slower, and for some reason I seem to be slower crossing from low to high strings than vice versa. I've been working on making the pick motions as small as possible, and using just the very tip of the pick. A few days ago I noticed the angle wasn't so great, and was changing as I moved across strings. I don't mean the angle of the pick face against the string, but the angle the pick from tip to base makes with respect to the guitar body. I found the top was leaning downwards towards the ground, so the up and down strokes weren't even. Correcting this puts my thumb on the string lower than the one I'm picking, which helps with damping unwanted noise. Still working on all of this, of course.

What I realized a while ago was that it was mostly my left hand letting me down, so that's mostly what I've been working on. As I said earlier, I've been trying to move my fingers as little as possible and keep them curled, and I've been doing this very slowly. I've only recently tried doing this at any sort of speed. When I do speed up, I notice a couple of things: going up scales is harder than going down, and my fingers start to flail more. Still, I think I've made some definite progress.

I don't *think* playing between any pair of strings is easier than any other for me, but I could be wrong. I do notice that there's a difference between inside and outside picking, though, which is not something I'd paid much attention to before.

Here's a video I just recorded, mostly messing around with 3-note-per-string patterns in Am. There's a bit of legato in there too, and that definitely needs more work in terms of accuracy and even-ness of volume. Anyway, and be happy as allows to hear any thoughts or criticisms:

[ginsambo]

Yeah me too about down strings being easier and way faster, especially 6-5-4-3/5-4-3-2/4-3-2-1 etc patterns on a scale. Although I find the 1-2-3-4 /2-3-4-5/3-4-5-6 etc patterns going up a scale easier than straight triplets or quadruplets for some reason. Maybe as my arm has more time to adjust I don't know.

Nice guitar BTW, it looks mad. And looking at you other video, definitely the way to learn with an emphasis on getting it clean and toneful before progressing. Sounding really toneful and musical and in time.

The thing is I can play some scales fast and 1-2-3's fast on the classical nylon strings and with the 3SC Strat and it's all good, melodic and very musical, even malmsteen sounding, but on the 1H pro mod, although clean they just sound shyte on longer runs. I've been trying to get some Zakk Wylde type runs wired, but it doesn't sound good, even though it's clean and up to speed. Maybe it's because I'm using a JB in the bridge position and not much distortion, my frets are worn and the trussrod needs a tweak, but to me it sounds like a load of mush and it's really difficult to reign in the tonal equality of the notes, where as on a strat or a neck humbucker, I know it would sound great.

I think what comes through for me is the amount of pick sensitivity required to pick continuously on a higher output type guitar I guess and it all depends what note you land on, but then I don't get how Zakk does it because he plays with a lot of intensity using his arm mainly and loads of distortion, but I'm guessing maybe he uses the neck pup to tone down the harshness and brightness a bit and even up the tonal qualities of the notes?

I guess I am still hitting the strings too hard?

[Cliff]

"Sound really toneful and musical and in time" Really!? Wow - thanks a lot - that means a great deal to me (Glad you like the guitar too.)

I couldn't really comment about the Zakk Wylde stuff. I know for me personally I've been easing up more and more with the force I use with the pick, mostly by allowing as little of the pick as possible to touch the strings. In order to do this, it took quite a bit of practice to keep the pick at an even depth - at first I would keep missing the string entirely sometimes and hit it too hard others. But I'm not sure if this is an issue for you.

[ginsambo]

I not really concerned with fingering exercises as my hammering on and legato is pretty good, loud and fluid all round already so I trust my left hand. But when moving up the strings in an uneven note per string way, my picking lets me down, or sometimes isn't as dependable as I would like it to be.

So what I analysed of my crapness is that my weakness is changing strings from playing non uniform picks per string. So whilst I am great at playing 1-2-3, 1-2-3 up the strings and even the 1-2-3-4, 2-3-4-5 or 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4 etc patterns asecending or descending I fall down when picking uneven numbers of notes per string. Say a 5 notes on one, 3 on the next, 7 on the next etc. or even, embarrasingly 1-2-3 > 1-2-3-1-2-3 > 1-2-3.

My thoughts were (For me) that there are alot of furious Zakk (Basically Randy on Steroids) picking riffs that I could learn to speed, augment and change with different string picking sequences whilst picking every note and these definitely locked in my picking co ordination and opened up my technique and strength for making picking more melodic passages at speed alot easier, especially if I practice them all up the board, even after just a half hour of practice. Is was just kind of reiterating what I already knew about my technique to an extent but it had a great effect.

Honestly, I stuck with them for a half hour last night until I got the speed and intensity and instantly my picking was much more fluid on the more melodic stuff.

I think, the key is really it's about making your own little riff exercises, which can be perhaps the part of passages you struggle with but mainly two string exercises, that turn your muscle memory on its head, because for people like you and me, who have been playing a long time, it is often your old muscle memory which we developed which is holding us up.

This is why practicing really furious picking riffs are ideal. Once you crack the picking pattern and get it to sound fluid, you don't even have to think about applying it to melodic, long arching string picking passages, as the right hand picking adjustment just comes naturally when changing strings, from your riff exercise memory, no matter how many notes are picked per string. It really opens you up to basically what you can do already, but can't quite acheive because your brain has been programmed a different way the last twenty years and you can't quite automatically grasp the subtle sring changing connections. It's very simple, effective and fast learning tool I reckon which takes you back to basics, especially of you left hand is already strong and up to speed, obviously assuming you already have a feel of how the notes fit against the beat.

But the key is that you have to be really aggressive and furious and relaxed at the same time and not kid yourself until the riffs really do sound great.

I am convinced that the secret to fluid picking is just to practice these riffs you make up to challenge yourself on just two or three strings and I am also convinced that you have to understand your weaknesses and make them up yourself to challenge your muscle memory. Well that and correct arm positions to allow your wrist to work properly on the lower strings (For me at least).

[ginsambo]

So in your case, I'd make up some simple two string riffs that cross from one string to a higher one and practice them until light speed intensity is acheived and if you are finding it hard going, relax you picking hand more.

Start out on the B and E strings, master them and then go and try it lower down the strings. Picking any such, relatively simple riff, with just two fretting fingers, maybe you first and second will be FAR more fruitful in realising your potential and getting your shit together FAST than practicing a scale run or multi finger exercise, which are a waste of time if you ask me when you want to develop your picking hand, as you are getting to practice the crux of your picking hand muscle memory weaknesses.

Even if you are finding your fretting fingers flailing about, it's better to develop your right hand first, as your fretting hand is alot easier to correct later and honestly, although it sounds bizarre, given the time you have been playing, I wouldn't be surprised if alot of this left hand stuff wasn't mainly due to your right hand anyway.

[ginsambo]

Definitely stick with TWO STRINGS until you can nail a kind of Zakk Wylde intensity. The rest of it is superfluous and a complete waste of time if you ask me. I'm not being harsh, but I've skirted about long enough myself to know skirting when I see it. You are a natural skirter, get some discipline and nail it to the wall with such assertiveness and abrasion that it punches a hole through it. Once you can play like that on two strings the rest will come very easily as it's just a question of right arm movement.

I'm not saying that you are not disciplining yourself, but rather that you are not learning things the easy way I reckon.

OK, this ends the waffle from me for a while. I will try and post a vid to show you what I mean.

[Cliff]

The last message made me laugh out loud last night when I first read it .

Between reading your previous two and that one, I'd spent maybe 5 hours solid working on two string exercises, just as you said. I got up to playing 6 notes per beat (3 per string) at 88bpm. Fast for me, but not exactly blinding. What sort of speed would you describe as Zakk Wylde intensity?

In the main, I'm pretty sure the left hand is the weaker one for me at the moment, though I understand what you say about it being sometimes difficult to tell which is the culprit. That said, I know for a fact that I have a right-hand weakness when picking up a scale across all six strings (but strangely not when I pick up between any pair of strings). But the main problem is I can't fret quickly and cleanly enough. But at last I think I know better how to focus in on the precise bits that need practicing, and I've learnt a bit more patience to work on them.

Mind you, I realize that playing two-note per strings is a challenge for me too, so I guess I do have a right-hand problem when changing strings very quickly.

Looking forward to your video!