Anyone using a PC1 with a Helix?

[Paulzx]

Hello Chaps,

I've got an issue with my PC1 which is really bugging me. It's about 15 years old but not had much use, pristine condition etc, but when I play it with high gain patches
through my Line 6 Helix, it sounds a bit lacking in gain. However, when I use my Jackson JS32 budget guitar with same patches, it sounds really good, very high gain
distortion etc, so it can't be the Helix, it has to be the PC1?

Those bridge pick ups are Dimarzio Super 3's right? A lot of guitar players seem to complain the pick up is too hot but that doesn't seem to be the case for me,
it seems to have less output than the JS32 or at least not as high gain.

I wondered if anyone was using one with a Helix, just for an instant comparison?

[pianoguyy]

I don't use the Helix or a PC1
But let's see if my story can relate:

I have guitars with the old 1200 system in them. I would describe them as 'volume knob, tone knob, and the oh my god my ears are bleeding and my face is melting knob'
But that was with the old rig. A rig that took 5 years to perfect and lasted over 2 decades. But, it was all 80s/early 90s stuff. Period compatible and tonally complimentary.
*worth noting: it was all microchip stuff. I did not even use a tube amp.

Fast forward to 2012-ish. I needed to make changes to my rig. I opted to go with a modeler - the HD500.
Great unit. I now have a bunch of them (floor and rack units) stashed across the country so I can just fly in and have gear ready to go.

The problem - the new digital gear rendered the 1200 audibly non functional. I plugged in another 1200, same result. Another, same result. I plugged them into the old rig, the face melts. WTF.
Luckily, at that time, with the new rig, a glow in the dark bust of Frankenstein with face melting leads - it simply was not needed.

I took my 'off time' to try various settings. I now have a 1200 that makes a difference in tone, but it just isn't that same ear bleeding 80s metal solo tone I once had. I have even tried other modelers/apps/etc. So, it isn't just L6 gear.
There is simply something about these new computer microchip devices that don't work well with the pre-computer era Jackson JE-1200 electronics.

[pianoguyy]

in fact, to take it a step further:
I think all of the older 'unique' features are lost on the new gear.
J-90. J-80. J-50. JE-1200. JE-1000.
While still fantastic pickups and pre-amps, there is simply something lost when used with a modern gear.

[metalhobo]

I don't use the Helix or a PC1
But let's see if my story can relate:

I have guitars with the old 1200 system in them. I would describe them as 'volume knob, tone knob, and the oh my god my ears are bleeding and my face is melting knob'
But that was with the old rig. A rig that took 5 years to perfect and lasted over 2 decades. But, it was all 80s/early 90s stuff. Period compatible and tonally complimentary.
*worth noting: it was all microchip stuff. I did not even use a tube amp.

Fast forward to 2012-ish. I needed to make changes to my rig. I opted to go with a modeler - the HD500.
Great unit. I now have a bunch of them (floor and rack units) stashed across the country so I can just fly in and have gear ready to go.

The problem - the new digital gear rendered the 1200 audibly non functional. I plugged in another 1200, same result. Another, same result. I plugged them into the old rig, the face melts. WTF.
Luckily, at that time, with the new rig, a glow in the dark bust of Frankenstein with face melting leads - it simply was not needed.

I took my 'off time' to try various settings. I now have a 1200 that makes a difference in tone, but it just isn't that same ear bleeding 80s metal solo tone I once had. I have even tried other modelers/apps/etc. So, it isn't just L6 gear.
There is simply something about these new computer microchip devices that don't work well with the pre-computer era Jackson JE-1200 electronics.

I got curious and started reading into the HD500 manual. Apparently line 6 had the very curious idea of actually modulating the physical input impedance of the device based on the amp or effect model you put first in your chain. also I think you can adjust it manually. worth seeing if that makes a difference (set it lower if it's set high, set it higher if its set low). maybe you already tried that though.

[pianoguyy]

The input impedance is definitely part of the units' tone. And is probably the single biggest cause of most a new user's complaints.
But if you set it to 3.5m, it allows 'true tone' - a pass-thru. (Some even say you can do it with 1m.)

[john.w.lawson]

I don't use the Helix or a PC1
But let's see if my story can relate:

I have guitars with the old 1200 system in them. I would describe them as 'volume knob, tone knob, and the oh my god my ears are bleeding and my face is melting knob'
But that was with the old rig. A rig that took 5 years to perfect and lasted over 2 decades. But, it was all 80s/early 90s stuff. Period compatible and tonally complimentary.
*worth noting: it was all microchip stuff. I did not even use a tube amp.

Fast forward to 2012-ish. I needed to make changes to my rig. I opted to go with a modeler - the HD500.
Great unit. I now have a bunch of them (floor and rack units) stashed across the country so I can just fly in and have gear ready to go.

The problem - the new digital gear rendered the 1200 audibly non functional. I plugged in another 1200, same result. Another, same result. I plugged them into the old rig, the face melts. WTF.
Luckily, at that time, with the new rig, a glow in the dark bust of Frankenstein with face melting leads - it simply was not needed.

I took my 'off time' to try various settings. I now have a 1200 that makes a difference in tone, but it just isn't that same ear bleeding 80s metal solo tone I once had. I have even tried other modelers/apps/etc. So, it isn't just L6 gear.
There is simply something about these new computer microchip devices that don't work well with the pre-computer era Jackson JE-1200 electronics.

obviously not the same problem or his JS32 pickup would sound dead too. Would someone please answer this guys question? I think they have forums for fictional story telling, just sayin'

[Paulzx]

There is simply something about these new computer microchip devices that don't work well with the pre-computer era Jackson JE-1200 electronics.

Wow, so it could be a case of - if you have a new PC1 it's going to sound like it should with the newer modellers, but the older guitars not so much?
Obviously the electronics are different in the newer guitars, so it's not really the Dimarzio at all, it's the actual guitar.

If that turned out to be true, where the hell does that leave you with an older PC1 - you would have to go back to using an amp.

I have got a Line 6 spider amp and a Line 6 DT50 that I never use these days but I'll try it just to see if the PC1 does indeed sound loads hotter

[Paulzx]

obviously not the same problem or his JS32 pickup would sound dead too. Would someone please answer this guys question? I think they have forums for fictional story telling, just sayin'

The JS32 is relatively new, maybe 5 years old, whereas the PC1 is probably one of the originals back within the first few years of when they started selling them.

This is why I need to find someone using this combo - or any recent modeller in fact.

[metalhobo]

Wow, so it could be a case of - if you have a new PC1 it's going to sound like it should with the newer modellers, but the older guitars not so much?
Obviously the electronics are different in the newer guitars, so it's not really the Dimarzio at all, it's the actual guitar.

If that turned out to be true, where the hell does that leave you with an older PC1 - you would have to go back to using an amp.

I have got a Line 6 spider amp and a Line 6 DT50 that I never use these days but I'll try it just to see if the PC1 does indeed sound loads hotter

his point was that different digital gear might react to analog changes in pickups or active electronics in a way that is unexpected when referenced against a normal amp.

I wouldn't expect a new PC1 to sound any different as its the same pickup and electronics. I don't understand why you say "obviously the electronics are different"

does your pc1 have fresh batteries in it? I know it's not supposed to affect the function of the passive pickups but it doesn't hurt to make sure.

[pianoguyy]

If that turned out to be true, where the hell does that leave you with an older PC1 - you would have to go back to using an amp.

For me, with the 1200, it was how I was setting up my patches.
Having gone from the old rig being built piece by piece and adjusting new pieces to compliment what already existed, I then went to using a modeler - which meant building entirely new rigs from scratch.
As example, reducing gain at the amp but adding a distortion pedal to the chain. It may give you the same end result, but when you then turn on an eq (which is sort of what the 1200 is) it reacts differently.
Another example, my physical rig used noise reduction at the end of the chain. But I found my modeler gets the best results by putting NR first in the chain. One would think that it is simply cutting out noise. But it does cause everything to react differently.


The point I am trying to make, try different settings. Even if it is simply changing models (like using an Ibanez tube screamer instead of a Chandler tube driver). It may seem like a simple answer, but it does work for multitudes of issues.

[ed]

Try the PC1 with other gear/amps because maybe its a fault in the PC1 wiring or the board. I am assuming it has the sustainer in it?

[john.w.lawson]

Try the PC1 with other gear/amps because maybe its a fault in the PC1 wiring or the board. I am assuming it has the sustainer in it?

It does, I'm sure. A sustainer doesn't work with normal pickups though, they are specially wound with less wire. I suppose it could be either of the mentioned Ideals OP's and yours. I don't use digital (modeling) equipment, I think they sound dry, but that's just my opinion.
I've had a number of line 6 pedal boards and played them with multiple guitars with boost and other boards with no problems.

[paranoid]

does the helix have an input meter? if so see if both guitars are pushing the same level of input. If input is lower on pc-1 it could have an eletrical issue. if levels are close it could be the eq of the patches verses the eq of the guitar pickups. can also be some of the interaction between your monitors and the guitar, this one always gets me when playing through pa type monitors instead of a cab.

[Paulzx]

his point was that different digital gear might react to analog changes in pickups or active electronics in a way that is unexpected when referenced against a normal amp.

I wouldn't expect a new PC1 to sound any different as its the same pickup and electronics. I don't understand why you say "obviously the electronics are different"

does your pc1 have fresh batteries in it? I know it's not supposed to affect the function of the passive pickups but it doesn't hurt to make sure.

I assumed the newer guitars would have different electronics, going off the theory of the reply that suggested older gear might not work with newer gear, but if they
are identical then that isn't the issue.

The guitar does have batteries in it and they are working properly, I wouldn't say they are fresh, but the sustainer is doing everything it should do

[Paulzx]

For me, with the 1200, it was how I was setting up my patches.
Having gone from the old rig being built piece by piece and adjusting new pieces to compliment what already existed, I then went to using a modeler - which meant building entirely new rigs from scratch.
As example, reducing gain at the amp but adding a distortion pedal to the chain. It may give you the same end result, but when you then turn on an eq (which is sort of what the 1200 is) it reacts differently.
Another example, my physical rig used noise reduction at the end of the chain. But I found my modeler gets the best results by putting NR first in the chain. One would think that it is simply cutting out noise. But it does cause everything to react differently.


The point I am trying to make, try different settings. Even if it is simply changing models (like using an Ibanez tube screamer instead of a Chandler tube driver). It may seem like a simple answer, but it does work for multitudes of issues.

Yep tried that, no difference in the result. I already have a distortion pedal in the chain next to the amp model, but in an effort to achieve a bit more, i added a second distortion
pedal, which did up the gain but i didn't like the actual sound that was producing, and it's getting into desperate territory doing stuff like that when all my other guitars sounded fine
in the first place, just the PC 1 is lacking gain and punch. I take your point about re-structuring the chain, I've tried but not had a good result so far.