Just curious......

[Slartibartfarst42]

Is there any particular reason why Adrian Smith's signature guitar is a Jackson as opposed to a Charvel? It just seems odd because his guitar is like nothing else in the Jackson range but it is very, very similar to a Charvel So Cal, so I would have thought that was the more obvious choice.

[pianoguyy]

Time

I can only speculate. But if you look at the timing of everything - from the time of him playing Jackson in the 80s, to the time that he signed his deal.
Charvel would not have been the 'optimum' brand.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Ah, so a purely commercial decision. I knew he'd used Jackson's before and I vaguely recall that Charvel wasn't as prominent at the time his Jackson was launched so I suppose it makes sense. The last time I looked at Charvel would have been around 2015 as that's when I bought my PRS. I loved the quality of the PRS and I remember also being hugely impressed with the Jackson Dinky. I looked at a So Cal at the same time but it only had the volume pot then and I also wanted a tone pot. Frankly, it felt quite cheap compared to the other two but the range and quality seems to have come on massively since then, unless I was just very unlucky in the instruments I tried. If memory serves me correctly, Adrian's guitar had already been out for some years by that point so Charvel must have been a far less popular brand at that point, unless like me you grew up in the eighties. I remember being surprised to find one in the shop because I had assumed the brand had died it was so unusual to see them in shops.

[pianoguyy]

Part of the problem with Charvel (as a brand) is its history, which goes all the way back to the 1970s with a man named Charvel and includes things done as recently as 2011 (the Desolation Series). I won't rehash all of it.
But it basically boils down to - it seems like that red headed step child. Or the crazy uncle we keep locked in the attic. It's Herpes.
You don't want it but you can't get rid of it, and it keeps coming back.


In 2015, the SoCal/San Dimas MiM guitars were nice. But in 2016, they had a design change which made them much better guitars - which also contained the tone knob you would have wanted.


Charvel (aka Jackson, now part of Fender) have some tremendous guitars. In fact, most of them are great guitars. But you have to know what to get.
They've had some real clunkers. I almost felt as if the Desolation Series was the death knell for the brand. Not bad guitars - for cheap guitars. But they were an abomination to the name Charvel, and the $1200 retail price was an absolute joke. I liked them much better at the Guitar Center clearance price of $199.

[pianoguyy]

I remember being surprised to find one in the shop because I had assumed the brand had died it was so unusual to see them in shops.

Some of this is the fact that stores have to pay for each brand they carry, and then carry X-amount of them.
If you had to choose between $5k for a Fender dealership that required 20 guitars be on hand, and $5k for a Charvel dealership that required 20 guitars be on hand...
Seems like a no brainer. Even the choice between Jackson and Charvel seems easy to make.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I hadn't thought of it that way but yes, if I was in that situation, Fender and Gibson would top my list, followed by PRS. Although I've definitely decided I want a Charvel, I can see how it's a VERY limited market. Unless you're in the market for a traditional superstrat, the range has limited appeal. Guitars like the So Cal and San Dimas only offer 22 frets and woefully poor upper fret access compared to many other superstrats offered by rivals. I can't think of any practical reasons for me wanting a So Cal because on paper, there are plenty of alternatives that look better, yet I still want a So Cal. I really can't explain why! Personally, I also find the colour choice offered by Charvel to be pretty woeful! I like the Snow White So Cal, the Dark Amber DK24 and the Chlorine Burst San Dimas but I really dislike all the other options. Perhaps that's my advancing years. Even on the DK24, where you do get 24 frets and better upper fret access, unless you want a more traditional and understated headstock like me, I imagine most people will go with the Jackson as it's a more widely recognised brand name. In an ideal world, I'd like them to do a So Cal with 24 frets and a more sculptured heel for better upper fret access but even then, I accept that is still quite a limited market.

[Dak]

Yeah like Pianoguy points too. They became somewhat of a footnote to the Jackson brand even though they were first and sought after way back in the early '80s. Look at the Jackson catalogs from the early '90s after the import Model Series ended. Charvel went from like a few pages to not even in the catalog. I remember looking at the Musician's Friend catalogs in the late '90s. Multiple pages of Jackson and only a couple of Charvel if that. Seems they were trying to use Charvel to compete more directly with Fender. I think the FMIC acquisition and them being able to use the Fender headstock rejuvinated the brand. IIRC from this board back there was of interest in Charvel but everyone wanted a Strat head like the originals. Once that came back it seems the brand started making a comeback. Image problem as well. I have a buddy that had a pre Fender lower end Charvel. He thought of them as just some low end guitar maker. Unaware of the history/Jackson link until I told him. Now he thinks his Pro-mod is like the best guitar ever.

Now as to what you want. I agree on the colors. If I were new guitar shopping I'd be in the same bind as you with Charvel. I prefer the Dinky body but the colors I like aren't available with a Floyd Rose which I'd want. I like pointy headstocks though so I'd just end up buying a Jackson. I've been watching you're threads. Sounds like you really want a Jackson but just can't live with the pointy headstock. There is another option. You could build a parts guitar. Buy a Jackson body in the color you want and put a DK24 neck on it. Problem solved. One of my favorites if not my favorite guitar is 90% built from parts from Ebay.

[Dak]

. I almost felt as if the Desolation Series was the death knell for the brand. Not bad guitars - for cheap guitars. But they were an abomination to the name Charvel, and the $1200 retail price was an absolute joke. I liked them much better at the Guitar Center clearance price of $199.

I had switched to drums and wasn't keeping up with guitar much at the time the Desolation series came out so I actually just discovered them last year. I got kinda excited since I've fell in love with the Jackson/Charvel Fusions. A Charvel LP copy. I thought a LP that'll feel like a Jackson/ Charvel. Looked at the specs. 25.5" scale neck. What a let down. I'll pass. Being made in China didn't help. At least ESP/ LTD has the right scale on their EC series guitars. Sorry OP for the slight thread hi-jack.

[pianoguyy]

Sorry OP for the slight thread hi-jack.

I don't consider it a hijacking.
It is part of the tainted brand history that {speculating} led to Smith going with Jackson:

Wayne Charvel.
Michael Charvel.
Grover put his own name on the guitars to get away from the name Charvel.
Jackson turned Charvel into imports (not as accepted in 1980s as it is 2020s). Really good imports at first. But once Jackson started having imports, Charvel kept getting the cheaper and cheaper imports.
Charvette
Desolation Series.
Periods of no Charvel guitars being made.
Lack of ad space - print media was expensive. The internet fixed that.
One day they are custom shop orders only, the next day they mass produced imports.

[pianoguyy]

Guitars like the So Cal and San Dimas only offer 22 frets and woefully poor upper fret access compared to

, the Dark Amber DK24 and the Chlorine Burst San Dimas but I really dislike all the other options. Perhaps that's my advancing years. Even on the DK24, where you do get 24 frets and better upper fret access,

I'd like them to do a So Cal with 24 frets and a more sculptured heel for better upp

Of course, you are talking to a guy who's avatar is a 22 fret glow in the dark Jackson, who also owns the rainbow of fruity colors from Charvel from 2016

[Slartibartfarst42]

I suppose that in a way, I do want a Jackson with a grown-up headstock. I think that guitars with pointy headstocks seem to bring with them a certain expectation that you will play Metal and you will shred. I'm way too slow and lacking in talent/skill to ever be a shredder and I'll probably never play in a band again but I do like Rock/Metal music as well as Blues and if I am to have a trem system on my guitar, it has to be a Floyd because I dislike the fender-style ones. I may not be able to play fast, but I still prefer a slim neck. Guitars with that spec tend to be of one style and aimed at a very particular market that just isn't me. If I turn up with a pointy, shreddy guitar, my playing will be a major disappointment so I'd rather turn up with an understated guitar.

It's disappointing how circumstances almost buried Charvel and realistically, if it wasn't for the Fender headstock, I probably wouldn't have given Charvel a second look as I'd have just bought the Jackson. The sad thing from this thread is that Adrian Smith essentially ended up with a Charvel guitar that happened to have 'Jackson' written on the headstock, just when it would have given Charvel a massive boost to have a player like him with his own Charvel signature model.

[pianoguyy]

death metal at its finest





sleaze metal

[Slartibartfarst42]

Well that pink Jackson looks completely out of place there but if it works for you, why not I suppose?

[PowerTube]

Part of the problem with Charvel (as a brand) is its history, which goes all the way back to the 1970s with a man named Charvel and includes things done as recently as 2011 (the Desolation Series). I won't rehash all of it.
But it basically boils down to - it seems like that red headed step child. Or the crazy uncle we keep locked in the attic. It's Herpes.
You don't want it but you can't get rid of it, and it keeps coming back.


In 2015, the SoCal/San Dimas MiM guitars were nice. But in 2016, they had a design change which made them much better guitars - which also contained the tone knob you would have wanted.


Charvel (aka Jackson, now part of Fender) have some tremendous guitars. In fact, most of them are great guitars. But you have to know what to get.
They've had some real clunkers. I almost felt as if the Desolation Series was the death knell for the brand. Not bad guitars - for cheap guitars. But they were an abomination to the name Charvel, and the $1200 retail price was an absolute joke. I liked them much better at the Guitar Center clearance price of $199.

The Charvette brand didn't do a lot for their image, either...

[pianoguyy]

but at least that was a different name