String retainer puzzle

[Axewielder]

I've got this 90's ESP M-II with a Kahler Steeler-variant fulcrum trem and a locking nut. The locking nut has always pulled the strings sharp when locked down. So...this is why some Floyd guitars have string retainers, I get it. I install one, and low and behold: I still have the same problem. Not even an improvement AFAICT. Now you can look at this pic and see I've got it cranked down far enough to where the angles should be in my favor. So what gives? Is this just the way things are in Kahler-Land?



On a positive note, my M-II looks more like a KH-2 now (whacka whacka whack)

[Tommie]

Can I check, the pic is blurry - are the locking pieces wedge shaped? If so, that's your problem, as you tighten the allen bolt, that wedge is going to be pushed "downhill" taking the string with it. The more play there is in the hole in the wedge, the worse the symptoms will be.

Poor design, if you ask me!

[Newc]

Yeah I'd say it's not coming off the nut to the tuners that's the problem, it's coming from the locks to the edge of the nut itself. If the actual slots are not even with the inside base of the nut, the locks are pushing the string down into a hole, which will cause the strings to go sharp.

[Axewielder]

Frickin stupid Kahler nut. I guess I could "file away" if I got a wild hair, but I'll prolly just live with it.

[Newc]

Isn't that the lawsuit nut that was just like a Floyd? I had one that was narrow like a regular bone nut that locked, but that one looks about as wide as an OFR nut.

[Axewielder]

It's very similar to an OFR nut. Since the bridge has "licensed under floyd rose..." on it, I would guess that it is not a lawsuit nut (although I don't know anything about that lawsuit).

[SEEGERMANY]

This whole string tree thingy after the nut still baffles me. Guess that's why I'm not an engineer.

So, let me see if I can get this straight. Once you string the guitar and you tune it up, then you tighten the locking nut. You guys say that once you tighten the locking nut, your strings go sharp. Ok, I'll buy that. But once the locking nut is clamped down, isn't the whole idea of the locking nut to keep the strings from moving? Use the fine tuners to get the strings back in tune and then again, what's the purpose of the the string tree if that nut is clamped down? Seems to me like overkill.

[Axewielder]

It's just an annoyance. I usually leave my fine tuners up a bit high, as strings tend to go flat more often than sharp over time. So, when I lock the nut down and they go sharp, I don't have enough travel left to bring them back down. The workaround is to tune slightly flat before you lock it down. Like I said, it's really just an annoyance.

[DonP]

I have a nut like this on my HM Strat. My nut has a "built in" retainer and small locking blocks.

First, your retainer is too low, as you already mentioned you cranked it down as low as it could go. This isn't the way to do it. You want a straight line from the nut to the retainer. If the retainer is too low, the strings might "buckle upward" as they break from the end of the nut to the retainer. When you clamp the locking blocks down, you take out this gap.

If the strings go straight over the nut (perfectly flat on top of the nut) to the retainer, there isn't any gaps when tightening the blocks, and hopefully the strings won't go sharp.

With any of my guitars with a locking nut, I have my locks finger tight when tuning with the keys, so that when I lock them with an allen, they don't have far to go. This seems to work for me.