trem help .. someone ?

[Tim_B]

ok, here's where I make myself sound like a complete novice ..

JT6 or OFR, I can tune a guitar perfectly, but ...

I dive bomb the trem, let the bar return slowly to it's natural position, and when I let go, I'm ever so slightly flat, enough to notice.

I pull the trem bar back, let the strings slowly slacken to their natural position, and I'm slightly sharp.
Both ways, the guitar is ( mostly ) in tune with itself, just out of tune to how it was pre-wammy bar action.

I've investigated trem springs, number, layout, neck screws, shims, heaven knows what else, and run up against a complete blank.

Over the years I've learned to live with this, tuning a guitar 'flat' ( after a dive bomb ) so I know how to return it to pitch, but recently it's been bugging me again, and I've decided I need to know ..

Guys, I have no idea what's happening, or more importantly, what the cure is.
Is it only me suffers from this?

Help?

[nitro_D]

Im not a floyd expert but my common sense would say that the strings are slipping, either at the tail or the headstock. Make sure the screws are tight in the locking nut etc..

Cant really help ne more

[Foulacy]

if it's the nut walking then dive bomb makes the strings sharp, pull-up makes it flat, so it's not that.

do this unlock the nut, dive the trem all the way and then slowly let it up like you are doing. tune the guitar with the headstock tuners then lock the nut. this gives your trem an exact spot it will return to after every dive, you'll never be flat after a dive! pull-up differs from guitar to guitar so after a pull up, if you are still sharp, just hit a little dive whenever you can. but I find this procedure helps IMMENSELY with both dive and pull-up return. and anyways, most people won't notice if you are a little sharp. it's much easier for the human ear to hear if someone is slightly flat.

[Outlander]

Sounds like flatened knife edges to me, what do they look like?

[Newc]

If the nut was slipping, it would always go sharp, never flat. When you dive with a slippery nut, you release tension to the tuners, which means when you return the trem to zero it pulls that slack out, making it go sharp. By the same token, pulling up also pulls more string under the saddle, and when the trem returns to zero, the tuners do not take up the slack, so they're sharp.

It's either the pivot posts or the knife edges.

[Tim_B]

hey guys, thanks for the comments

picking up on a couple of points raised ...

I've got two gtrs with floyd type trems, and they both do this; my model 4 ( JT6 ) and a BC Rich ( licensed floyd ).
I'm fairly sure the nuts aren't slipping, although I don't tighten them as hard as I used to, I'll pay the grip-blocks ( or whatever they're called ) some proper attention ... thinking about it, it's the plain strings that suffer worst, so it could be this.
I've no idea what the knife edges are like, but I'll check them out too
cheers
Tim

[Foulacy]

hey guys, thanks for the comments

picking up on a couple of points raised ...

I've got two gtrs with floyd type trems, and they both do this; my model 4 ( JT6 ) and a BC Rich ( licensed floyd ).
I'm fairly sure the nuts aren't slipping, although I don't tighten them as hard as I used to, I'll pay the grip-blocks ( or whatever they're called ) some proper attention ... thinking about it, it's the plain strings that suffer worst, so it could be this.
I've no idea what the knife edges are like, but I'll check them out too
cheers
Tim

I'm telling you, tune the guitar like i said. do a full dive with the nut open then tune without touching the trem. lock the nut. you wont have this problem. you have to give the trem and springs a 0 point. what better zero point then after a dive?

also, do not tighten nut bolts as hard as you can or you will strip the nut. if the pads aren't holding then it's likely the guitar will go completely out of tune, not uniformly flat.

[jimmer_21]

Agree with NewC...

It's either the pivot posts or the knife edges

[DocNrock]

Agree with NewC...

It's either the pivot posts or the knife edges

+2

[Spivonious]

+2

+3

Sounds like the knife edges aren't returning to the same spot on the posts. So after you dive, it stays a little "dived", making the strings flat. After a pull-up, it stays a little "pulled-up", making the strings sharp.

I think the fact that it happens on both guitars is just a coincidence. How old is the B.C. Rich?

[Tim_B]

+3

Sounds like the knife edges aren't returning to the same spot on the posts. So after you dive, it stays a little "dived", making the strings flat. After a pull-up, it stays a little "pulled-up", making the strings sharp.

I think the fact that it happens on both guitars is just a coincidence. How old is the B.C. Rich?

It's a '96 ..

and thanks again guys, I got another opinion from my local tech who suggested the knife edges and trem studs ... so it's out with the rat tail file later, I haven't done any maintenance on either gtr in this area, I'm expecting blunt edges all over.
I'm hoping a sharper edge and cleaner groove will make the difference.

thanks again, I'll keep you posted ( like you all care that much! lol)

cheers

Tim

[Tim_B]

in progress update ...

Charvel is still in its case, but my BCR is in pieces around me.

The tuners were all loose ( both screw and locknuts ) but aren't now, that's got to help some
As for the trem, well, after 10 minutes with a rat-tail file, I wouldn't use the word 'knife', but there's definately an 'edge' now, which is an improvement.
Similarly for the trem studs, after a bit of attention, the groove is more of a 'V' than a 'U' now ... here goes re-stringing and tuning ..

[DonP]

The thing is you need "hardened" knife edges. If the edge isn't hardened, it will dull and you'll be back in the same spot you were before.

That's why OFR's and Schaller's are sush popular upgrades - the knife edges are hardened so that they don't dull.

[Tim_B]

thanks DonP, I'll maybe look into that

what are the edges on the JT6? anyone know? ( I've got 2 'spares' I could replace a licensed floyd with )

it's back together now, strings tuned to pitch, but I can't give it some grief until tomorrow ... here's hoping

[Tim_B]

sorted, done, and working fine,
thanks guys


anyone know where I can pick up another trem arm for a JT-6?
Or would an arm from another model fit?

cheers