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Kahler Vs. Floyd

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  • Kahler Vs. Floyd

    I have never owned a Kahler equiped guitar. I hear a lot of guys with very strong opinions about the two. Clarify for me please. Are Kahlers really all that bad? Would you always chose a Floyd over a Kahler?

  • #2
    I've had a few guitars with Kahlers on them. Both the pro and the top mount. I have a bunch of guitars with floyds. I like floyds much better than a Kahler. I just like the way they feel better and i find them easier to set up over the Kahler. Altho the Kahler does have alot more adjustability. I just like the Floyd better. Kahlers are not a bad trem. The Flyer is very much like a Floyd. Double locking and all. However the single locking ones are just well not for me. Even tho i loved the guitarrs i had with the Kahlers on them. But i think it was more the actual guitar itself as opposed to the trem.
    Gil

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    • #3
      Neither bridge is "bad" in my opinion. Just a matter of preference.

      I think from a technical standpoint, you can pull "up" more on a recessed Floyd than a Kahler. I am not 100% positive on that as I have been anti-trem for about 17 years now. :ROTF:

      A buddy of mine who uses trems and has guitars with both bridges said something to the effect of "Kahler is fine for Slayer type whammy bar stuff, but if you wanna do Dime-like stuff you gotta have a Floyd."

      I personally don't like the feel of Floyds cause they're usually flush with the body and there's no string angle. It's completely flat. Some people prefer that feel though.

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      • #4
        can you do dive bombs on a Kahler? I will say one thing. After looking at them, string changes look a lot easier on them.

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        • #5
          Can of Worms vs. Pandora's Box?

          Originally posted by Brian View Post
          I personally don't like the feel of Floyds cause they're usually flush with the body and there's no string angle.
          Non-recessed Floyd FTW!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Aaronharmon View Post
            Would you always chose a Floyd over a Kahler?
            Yes.
            I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Aaronharmon View Post
              can you do dive bombs on a Kahler? I will say one thing. After looking at them, string changes look a lot easier on them.

              lol, Of course you can... It is a tremolo ya' know.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Brian View Post
                It's completely flat. Some people prefer that feel though.
                Actually i have always put a little back tilt on my floyds, i don't set them perfectly flush, a little bit of back angle i always felt helped sustain and tone a bit, guess i like the way it feels,..dunno , but i always have done that, guess i figured it was common.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Trem View Post
                  Actually i have always put a little back tilt on my floyds, i don't set them perfectly flush, a little bit of back angle i always felt helped sustain and tone a bit, guess i like the way it feels,..dunno , but i always have done that, guess i figured it was common.
                  I've seen quite a few with a forward angle. I always just thought that was due to an inproper setup. I can't recall too many with a back angle. Whatever works

                  I just tend to prefer that kind of angled feel of a tune-o-matic syle bridge. Kahlers come closer to that feel than Floyds do for me. Even non-recessed Floyds.

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                  • #10
                    I have both and alway take Floyd. Some guy has a whole series of videos on this subject on You Tube check it out.

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                    • #11
                      Do you want a crescent wrench or a socket wrench? Choose now, because you can't have both!

                      Each has advantages and disadvantages, but both have their uses and are cool to have.

                      If I could only have one kind of trem, I would choose the Kahler Spyder with the optional Auto-Latch. It's basically a better-designed Floyd Rose that can locked into a hardtail with the Auto-Latch, then used like a Floyd when you disengage the Auto-Latch. An improved Floyd built by Kahler.
                      Ron is the MAN!!!!

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                      • #12
                        Floyds require a lot less maintenance and it's much easier to adjust the feel. Kahlers offer more adjustability (saddle height and string spacing) but are lot more finicky than Floyds, as far as maintenance goes.

                        There's a reason why you don't see that many guitars with Kahlers any more and it's not just because Floyds are cheaper to manufacture. If players wanted them, manufacturers would put them on guitars.

                        I put a Kahler on my first Charvel backin '85 and I ended up regretting it. I put a fixed Kahler (in red mind you) on a Jackson a few years later and liked it. Ever since then though, it's either a fixed Strat style bridge or an OFR.

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                        • #13
                          Floyds became the popular bridge because EVH endorsed Kramers with Floyds. I think that mattered more than the inherent advantages of either bridge.

                          I don't think oiling a bridge once every 3 months is that onerous of maintenance, but that's just me....
                          Ron is the MAN!!!!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lerxstcat View Post
                            Do you want a crescent wrench or a socket wrench? Choose now, because you can't have both!

                            Each has advantages and disadvantages, but both have their uses and are cool to have.

                            If I could only have one kind of trem, I would choose the Kahler Spyder with the optional Auto-Latch. It's basically a better-designed Floyd Rose that can locked into a hardtail with the Auto-Latch, then used like a Floyd when you disengage the Auto-Latch. An improved Floyd built by Kahler.

                            But that model is no longer made, so if you're going to compare what's readily available without having to do a lot of searching, then the Floyd wins on several fronts:

                            1. Better locking nut, unless Kahler wised up and got a license deal. Behind-the-nut may as well not be there, since slippage at the unlockable nut is one of the problems.
                            2. Better bi-directional range. Kahlers can do pullups, as long as it's set up properly, but cannot match the range of a Floyd.
                            3. Fewer components = better vibration return. Strings must be anchored so their vibrations are returned to the string itself and not dissipated. When latched to 2 points (one at each end) that absorb vibration or otherwise disperse it in any direction other than back into the string, you lose sustain. The Kahler saddle has at least 4 different interconnecting pieces before touching the baseplate. The Floyd has 2.
                            4. Harder saddle and baseplate materials = more sustain. Solid steel blocks will prolong sustain and reflect it back in the same intensity as it was received, but the softer brass components of a Kahler will absorb vibration and pass it through to whatever it's connected to, which then reduces it further.
                            5. Both ends are locked. With a Kahler, you can pop the ball out of the cup if you dive too far.

                            However, the Kahler has the distinct advantage of an adjustable feel. You can make it stiffer than a Floyd by turning an allen screw, whereas with a Floyd you have to add springs and adjust the string tuning and spring claw to get it right.

                            A stiffer trem will allow you to perform slide-effects, whereas a Floyd cannot.

                            As well, if you set a Kahler just right, it will not go out of tune if you break a string.
                            I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

                            The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

                            My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Newc View Post
                              But that model is no longer made, so if you're going to compare what's readily available without having to do a lot of searching, then the Floyd wins on several fronts:

                              1. Better locking nut, unless Kahler wised up and got a license deal. Behind-the-nut may as well not be there, since slippage at the unlockable nut is one of the problems.
                              2. Better bi-directional range. Kahlers can do pullups, as long as it's set up properly, but cannot match the range of a Floyd.
                              3. Fewer components = better vibration return. Strings must be anchored so their vibrations are returned to the string itself and not dissipated. When latched to 2 points (one at each end) that absorb vibration or otherwise disperse it in any direction other than back into the string, you lose sustain. The Kahler saddle has at least 4 different interconnecting pieces before touching the baseplate. The Floyd has 2.
                              4. Harder saddle and baseplate materials = more sustain. Solid steel blocks will prolong sustain and reflect it back in the same intensity as it was received, but the softer brass components of a Kahler will absorb vibration and pass it through to whatever it's connected to, which then reduces it further.
                              5. Both ends are locked. With a Kahler, you can pop the ball out of the cup if you dive too far.

                              However, the Kahler has the distinct advantage of an adjustable feel. You can make it stiffer than a Floyd by turning an allen screw, whereas with a Floyd you have to add springs and adjust the string tuning and spring claw to get it right.

                              A stiffer trem will allow you to perform slide-effects, whereas a Floyd cannot.

                              As well, if you set a Kahler just right, it will not go out of tune if you break a string.

                              You speak of all that sustain gained with the floyd over the kahler, but then, all that sustain of the floyd is transferred to the body by two tiny points of contact... I.e The posts, where as the kahler has a much larger surface contact with the guitar body.

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