Can't keep my model1 in tune...details in: not saddles, not nut, not tuners...

[pott]

And she does NOT stay in tune.


ONE full step bend on the G, B or high E strings would get her out of whack.

The nut is fine, been checked out by yours truly and the Edinburgh tech. It's graphtech, with a slight angle to the slots to angle them to their respective tuners.

Saddles are almost brand new, graphtech (only ones that go high enough for me)

Tuners have been changed today for gotohs mini, brand new.

Since it's a Strat's vintage style bridge that's screwed down all the way, the saddles go quite high...Which in itself could cause issues. But I tried her with the new tuners and with the bridge setup like on a Strat (with a 3mm pullup space) and it had the same issue.


The ONLY thing I can see remaining is that it IS a neck angle issue, but that the bridge is so old it didn't return to pitch correctly. For some reason the change in tuning 'felt' different when I had it setup like a Strat rather than before or now... so I'll try shimming the neck as a last hope to bring the saddles down some.

Unfortunately my Strat, just with graphtech saddles stays in tune perfectly, and the saddles are even higher, with the bridge set flat to the body... which in a way negates this theory...

I'm starting to want to turn this baby into firewood, and that's coming from a guy who LOVES every guitar, plywood or whatever. It's really doing my head in.
It's the red Charvel.


Anyone else see anything else..?

[jdr94]

i'd say check your springs.

[Newc]

If the spring claw is slammed against the body and you've got 5 screws in it, the bridge will not move short of a crowbar.

However, a slight movement will not affect tuning.

I'd say you got a bad set of strings, or you've got far too many wraps on the posts.

Try some Sperzels or other quality locking tuners with minimal wrap (pull through the post tight with a pair of pliers and lock it down, then tune the string to get minimal slippage).

If you don't hear any popping, it's not the nut.

It could be the trem block. If the string slots in the block are worn (possible on a guitar that old) then the balls are digging into the metal.

Try a new steel block.

[pott]

No. She's been like this ever since I got her unfortunately. Old nuts, new nuts, different string gauges...
When I had her setup Strat like she had 3 springs and the bridge was set to pull up. However right now you're right, 5 springs and screwed all the way down. It is not the bridge.
I have the right number of wraps erverywhere, and none of my other guitars, strung exactly the same way, have the same issues I do usually 2 wraps on the low E, 3 on the A and D and 4 on the unwound strings.

Good call on the steel block! Was thinking next of replacing the whole bridge anyway...A Wilkinson or Gotoh. Thanks!

[DHardmanJr]

Does it go out of tune even when not using the trem? If so, does it go out of tune only after you bend strings? If it mainly goes out of tune when you bend strings I'd suspect that one or more of the wound strings is binding on the nut. You can lubricate the nut, or I have also seen folks recommend reshaping the nut slot to avoid the binding.

I have never had good luck in getting any guitar with a tremolo that is not a Floyd-style staying in tune anywere near as good as a Floyd equipped guitar does. So, you can take my advice for what it's worth.

Dave

[pott]

It goes out of tune when NOT using the trem :P

Only the unwound strings stay out of tune. And I've already reshaped the nut a couple of times, widening the rear of the slots, but to no avail. I really really doubt it's the nut.

I do NOT use the trem AT ALL. I have not used it ONCE in my life. It's blocked down, the arm isn't even on it. Really not a trem user at all, even the Floyd on my Charvel 4 is blocked down That one does stay in tune though...though not too well despite the double locking.

[DHardmanJr]

If it's the unwound strings staying out of tune, then I agree ... unlikely to be the nut. Sounds like you've already tried new tuners, etc. The way you describe the high saddles, that's the only thing that seems out of sorts so your path to shim the neck to produce a better angle so you can lower the saddles seems like a good though.

Dave

[pott]

I shimmed the neck today and tightened down the tremblock to the baseplate. Now it seems to stay in tune a hell of a lot better. May have been the issue! Thanks guys!

[satyr]

Hey hope you got it solved..but one problem I have seen with strat vintage is the 6 base mount screws.Make sure the heads are just touching against the plate, without lifting it.otherwise these things float all over, even with/especially with the springs cranked.This would explain why the neck angle helped...the pivot point has changed(even without using the whammy)

[pott]

Nah it's not that. I always set the baseplate flat, i.e like you said. I first put it flat manually, then lower the screws just enough before it starts raising.

[straycat]

The stock trem is a Gotoh 105 and its a great trem.Graphtec saddles have caused some major tuning headaches for me.I have customers that want the Graphtech saddles and I try to steer them away from them because they suck the tone right out of a vintage trem guitar.
The material used deadens the brightness unlike the stock nickel saddles.
The unwoung strings cut into the GT saddle beleive it or not and will hang up.
Graphtech nuts are OK but make sure you get the unwound string slots as round as you can. Square nut files will make a square slot and the strings will bind if the bottom of the slot is not rounded.Its best to polish the nut slots with 2000 grit paper to get them as smooth as possible.

[satyr]

WOW...intersting, sounds like you've tried everything...only other problem i've seen is the tips of the string winding getting snagged in the block, and unravelling, usually stops when the winding tightens, or the string lets go...keep us posted!!!

[pott]

The stock trem is a Gotoh 105 and its a great trem.Graphtec saddles have caused some major tuning headaches for me.I have customers that want the Graphtech saddles and I try to steer them away from them because they suck the tone right out of a vintage trem guitar.
The material used deadens the brightness unlike the stock nickel saddles.
The unwoung strings cut into the GT saddle beleive it or not and will hang up.
Graphtech nuts are OK but make sure you get the unwound string slots as round as you can. Square nut files will make a square slot and the strings will bind if the bottom of the slot is not rounded.Its best to polish the nut slots with 2000 grit paper to get them as smooth as possible.

Aye I do that with most of my nuts. Thanks. I got graphtech saddles because they're the only things I can find in town, those really needed replacement. Other stuff I can't afford, they get expensive.. I don't mind the tone.

She's getting a bone nut though soon.

[straycat]

I think a bone nut is a good idea.The stock nut was graphite and I have never had a problem with tuning on a model 1.
The deal with GT nuts is they are supposed to be self lubricating as the strings move in the slots but all I ever see with them is wear grooves and string pinching.
Now this is all my opinion and if you like the product and have good luck with it fine.

[Newc]

As I understand it, the stock nuts on those was not graphite, but rather Delrin - same stuff some guitar picks are made of. Supposedly similar in splieeryness to graphite, but not really.

True bone nuts (made of genuine ivory) may be hard to come by, what with the ivory ban.

What brand of strings are you using? I've found Dean Markley and D'Addarios to be slightly squared, and that may cut into the nut slots.

I've tried S.I.T.s - they don't S.I.T.

As well, many popular string brands will continue to stretch even after you've stretch-tuned them. It's not the wraps getting tighter, it's the actual metal stretching (D.M., D'Addario, etc).

Ernie Balls are the only ones I've found that don't do that.