guitar signal reduction

[organelle67]

I've heard that when using an instrument cable longer than 21'...the signal from your guitar will start to drop off. Some dude at GC told me to use a direct box in between the two long cables to keep this from happening.

Not sure he knew what he was talking about though, I know direct boxes are for use with mixers, but never heard of them used for this. So anyway my question is when using a very long guitar cable (or two) that are longer than 21'...what pedal or device out there that will keep the guitar signal from dropping off?

[SlasZ]

I think it depends on your pickups (don't shoot me if I'm wrong, just read this from someone at UG ).
Passive pickups have a lot of inductancen rather high capacitance and the pots are higher resistance too most of the time. Because of this the cable capacitance matters a lot, so I guess for passive pickups the length matters more. Longer cables shape the sound a bit also.
Active pickups don't have this.

[åron]

If you must run long cables, there are a few buffer devices that change the impedence of the signal. The bit about the DI sounds like typical GC hack advice - he wants to sell you something, though he's not sure how it works, what it does, but you gotta have it.

Here's a good bit of info about the popular VHT valvulator and buffer devices in general:
http://www.guitarpedalstore.com/guit...R/POWER-SUPPLY

[Newc]

As I understand it, Randy Rhoads used a 100' cable live. I don't recall anyone mentioning anything about poor tone.

Seriously, you're talking microns here. While the difference will be noticeable when switching between two cables on-the-spot, you're not going to play in front of a crowd of technicians with spectrum analyzers and oscilloscopes, and your signal is not going to be so weak as to not be heard.

[markD]

As I understand it, Randy Rhoads used a 100' cable live. I don't recall anyone mentioning anything about poor tone.

hahahahahahaha, i mention his buzzy, insect-esque tone all the time!!!

[JACKSONFREAK]

That guy at GC probably just went through a monster cable training. And according to the guys at monster. Thats what happenes. Altho they say after 18ft of standard cable. But ehy devised a way to make the signal go an extra 3 ft without degradation. The GC guy might have been thinking active direct box. As it has a preamp line level signal in it. and will boost the signal back up. But not sure if that actually works to the extent he meant. I've heard this and nit just from GC guys. But else where by sound engineers etc.. Not sure how true it is. I've never tested the theory myself. Not all the bad info the GC guys spit out is GC BS. We all here the same things. We (GC employees)just get exposed to it more because we deal with musicians of every level all day. And he simply may have been passing along something someone non gc told him. Im not stickin up for the guy. But lets be realistic. If some one is working around a certain situation everyday. You will be more likely to get information on a more frequent basis both good and bad. Its up to you what you do with that information. I've heard som einteresting conversation to this effect just by customers who were talking to thier friends in the store. And of course the info in the conversation was a bit skued.
Gil

[jtr]

It's not like the sound is going to suddenly die you lose a bit of high end. If you have a guitar with a JE 1000 ,JE1200 ect or EMG or a EMG PA2 ect it won't matter because they are low impedence and have buffer amp .

[organelle67]

So I guess the only thing to do is buy a long cable and see if it makes any difference on the signal strength....which some of you say it won't. And I have passive pickups too btw

Thanks for the info so far

[rocksoldier]

Do you use any stomp boxes? If so, as long as at least one of them is not true bypass, it will work as a buffer, so if you for example had a regular Boss pedal before the long cable, the signal would be much less affected by the long cable.

[organelle67]

The guy at GC may have been onto something, because while checking out these Direct Boxes at MF, the descriptions do say that they will convert instrument level signals to low impedance...

and if that's the case, the lower impedance would keep the guitar signal stronger....make sense? Any input?

Here are a couple of links at MF:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navig...=100001+304644

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...Box?sku=184302

[jtr]

OK what kind of guitar do you have? If it has any active electronic it's already low impedance. Most people a GC don't know anything other than what they've been told and have little or no knowledge about the equipment they sell.

[organelle67]

Les Paul with SD Distortion pickup...it's passive.

[vondran]

Do you use any stomp boxes? If so, as long as at least one of them is not true bypass, it will work as a buffer, so if you for example had a regular Boss pedal before the long cable, the signal would be much less affected by the long cable.

Rocksoldier has it right. I have a Korg DT-10 tuner pedal midway between guitar and amp. It has a very clean buffer circuit so it works perfect as a line buffer for long cables. Also any Boss pedal is generally good line buffer as previously mentioned since they buffer even when off. Wahs, MXR pedals in general (e.g. phase 90), and anything true bypass if used alone will not buffer when off and can even suck some tone themselves without something buffering in front of them.

All that said, some have actually used the long cable capacitance to trim a slit bit of highs from their signal. Bottomline, if you like your tone with a long cable than don't worry about it.

[organelle67]

Rocksoldier has it right. I have a Korg DT-10 tuner pedal midway between guitar and amp. It has a very clean buffer circuit so it works perfect as a line buffer for long cables. Also any Boss pedal is generally good line buffer as previously mentioned since they buffer even when off. Wahs, MXR pedals in general (e.g. phase 90), and anything true bypass if used alone will not buffer when off and can even suck some tone themselves without something buffering in front of them.

All that said, some have actually used the long cable capacitance to trim a slit bit of highs from their signal. Bottomline, if you like your tone with a long cable than don't worry about it.

Sounds good, I need to get a pedal tuner anyway and the Korg is the ticket. Muchas gracias!

[vondran]

Sounds good, I need to get a pedal tuner anyway and the Korg is the ticket. Muchas gracias!

Korg just discontinued the DT-10 series, replacing it with a new pedal tuner with true bypass. I noticed the black version (the DT-10BR) are still available at some stores at a very discounted price. http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--KORDT10BR