Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Diminished scales.......

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Diminished scales.......

    I've learned about 3 awesome sounding diminished licks, but have no clue how to put them in a song. They sound cool as **** by there self, but really out of key when I try and put them in a solo. How do you use these things? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
    Madness Reigns......... In the Hall of the Mountain King!

  • #2
    Re: Diminished scales.......

    drop the key of the song a 1/2 step to put in diminished licks (but only where the dimished licks are)...d.m.
    http://onlinerock.com/musicians/diab...nsoloshort.mp3
    the sweeps are diminished in this solo...the main key of this song is b

    [ January 20, 2003, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: diablomozart ]
    http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Devane.ASP

    http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Torquestra.ASP

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Diminished scales.......

      So if your in the key of A minor, what would you play the diminished scale over?

      I'm also not sure how to tell what key these licks are in,for instance one of the licks is E,G, and A# on the G string, and C#,E and G on the high E.

      Thanks for any help.
      Madness Reigns......... In the Hall of the Mountain King!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Diminished scales.......

        Diablo, cool solo... I gave ya 5 stars for that! haha...

        What are you using equipment/amp wise?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Diminished scales.......

          jeez...this is tough to explain....wish i was a teacher instead of a theoritcal idiot but i'll try...if you're soloing in a minor, drop the root key to g sharp and do a dimished pattern...the beginning note of the lick should match the root note you dropped a 1/2 step to get to (ex. g sharp then lick starts with g sharp)...the problem with trying to explain this is the diminished really depends on your arrangement of the key changes behind the solo...i discovered it strictly by trial and error...have you ever tried to pick out some of yngwie's rhythms? he uses diminished quite a bit...a lot of the classical composers use it as well...btw my fave diminished pattern looks like this...

          ------------------- E
          ------------------- A
          ------------------- D
          -6-9-----------9-6- G
          -----8-------8----- B
          -------6-9-6------- E

          it's based in d flat...lookig at crimson rain...the solo progression is b---d flat---d---d flat---b---b flat...i execute a variation of the above diminished lick over the d flat (2nd occurence)...so i guess it can be used anywhere as long as it's a static key you perform it over...hmmmm...this requires some more thought...try to figure out the crimson rain solo and it should help you understand the concept a little better (i hope)...will post back when i find a better way to explain it...as for the licks you listed...the first note you hit should mirror the root...
          cleveland metal...my amps???? [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] you're gonna shoot me!!!!....ampeg ss140c solid state stereo chorus amp and an ips 33b for a splash of delay...oh yeah closed back 4x12 (also ampeg...d.m.
          http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Devane.ASP

          http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Torquestra.ASP

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Diminished scales.......

            o.k. the chord progression has to be diminshed in order for the proper effect to be desired...ie. in crimson rain i start the diminished pattern over the d flat but end it over the b flat...those two notes are part of the diminished scale of b which is where the dropping of the root note 1/2 step comes in...is this any help????d.m.
            http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Devane.ASP

            http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Torquestra.ASP

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Diminished scales.......

              b diminished scale

              -------------------------- E
              -1-4---------------------- A
              -----2-5------------------ D
              ---------3-6-------------- G
              -------------5------------ B
              ---------------3-6-------- E

              so if the song is in b for a diminished lick you need to have the rhythm key change to any of the notes in that scale and the chord progression kinda follow that scale as well......d.m.

              [ January 21, 2003, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: diablomozart ]
              http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Devane.ASP

              http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Torquestra.ASP

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Diminished scales.......

                Hey, great solo DM! Me likee too much!

                I know just enough theory to put my foot in my mouth, but diminished chords and scales as I see them are passing tones, which are notes or chords you "pass through" on your way from one pivotal chord to another - usually from the dominant (V) chord to the tonic (I) chord, aka the "root" chord.

                A diminished scale is compelling when you start 1/2 step below the key of the song
                because that's the 7th tone of the 8-tone
                diatonic scale. That 7th "pulls" you towards resolving the chord progression to the tonic (I or VIII depending on your
                outlook). Since the diminished chord is a stack of minor 3rds, when you play diminished arpeggios you'll stay in key as long as you always go up or down 3 frets at a time. To resolve your solo, though, you'll have to come back in to tonic, which most typically would be harmonic minor, or in A minor your final
                diminished arpeggio would start on Ab, then resolve it with a nice A with a wide
                Uli Roth hand vibrato.

                As for the key, while you're running thru
                the diminished progression you can almost
                think of any of the notes as being the key, since everything's going in minor 3rds. You're playing in a state of transition towards resolving to the tonic
                chord.

                I probably obscured what little sense this made by talking too long, but this is my simplistic knowledge of the use of diminished chords. I hope it helps.
                Ron is the MAN!!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Diminished scales.......

                  Originally posted by diablomozart:

                  cleveland metal...my amps???? [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] you're gonna shoot me!!!!....ampeg ss140c solid state stereo chorus amp and an ips 33b for a splash of delay...oh yeah closed back 4x12 (also ampeg...d.m.
                  <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That soundclip is a pretty good argument for the "tone is in the fingers" school of thought! Of course the better the gear is the easier it is to play with inspiration, too!
                  Ron is the MAN!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Diminished scales.......

                    "Of course the better the gear is the easier it is to play with inspiration, too!" Amen to that...when i get on a jackson i can play for hours straight, then i get back on my ibeenhacked and i play for 30 minutes. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Diminished scales.......

                      Oh my god , I am really confused now [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

                      So ,refering to the post above, there is no B note in a B diminished scale?

                      What ever key I'm in, do I just start a diminished scale on the note that is a half step below, but can't end on any of those notes?

                      If the above is correct, and god I hope cause if not then I have no clue what you guys are saying [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] , can the scale be played over any chord in the progression?

                      One more ?, what key am I in when the chords are F#m, A and E?
                      Sorry 2 more ?s [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] The other is if the song is composed of all the above chords, and also C#m, and F, does that change the key to something else other than the progresion above ,which is what the solo is played over?
                      I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving me on this. If I had know that it was something this difficult for ME, I wouldn't have posted the ? trying to get you guys to help me understand this mess. Thanks again!
                      Madness Reigns......... In the Hall of the Mountain King!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Diminished scales.......

                        Diablo, Regardless of what it is, it sounds great.

                        Hey, when I had had Marshall 900s I made even "them" sound nice. If you spend enough time, you can eek the most out of lots of things. And that clip sounds quite nice.

                        Aside from that, you're a very tasteful player with excellent phrasing and a VERY strong sense of feel. You definitely know what's up.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Diminished scales.......

                          lerx...that was a mouthful!!!! [img]graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img] ...explaining how and why the diminished scales work is tough isn't it? btw i'm glad you liked the solo too....it was one of those where i wrote the main part of the song, sweated a solo progression for almost a month, and then when i finally record the solo progression, the solo itself pops out in 4-5 takes... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] ...having a good progression definitely makes soloing a lot easier...
                          rick, the diminished stuff is very classical sounding, play and experiment with it 'til it sound natural, don't force it into a song as then it may sound a little ....weird...d.m.
                          http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Devane.ASP

                          http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Torquestra.ASP

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Diminished scales.......

                            Hey dm, THANK YOU for posting that link!
                            I saved it to my favorites list! I'll be studying that info for awhile! If you click on the "scales" link on the right of the page, it brings up a chart of chords which I believe you can click on a chord to go to the scales that'll work with that chord. There's a lotta ammo in that link, I believe! Thanks again!

                            Lerx
                            Ron is the MAN!!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Diminished scales.......

                              glad you understood it!!! i didn't!!!lol...d.m.
                              http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Devane.ASP

                              http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Torquestra.ASP

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X