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Kahler Killer vs New Kahler hybrid !

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  • Kahler Killer vs New Kahler hybrid !

    OK, let me first say that I discovered Charvels late...And when I did, I have satisfied my "guitar jones" by aquiring imports (most seem to be made during the 86 - 88 period)...Which I feel are better than any fender non-custom shop guitar made and sold over the past 15 years ! ....And I loved the Kahler trems (2500 series)....however, I use somewhat heavy strings 12 - 56 and even though they are tuned down to "D", I noticed that my "string hooks" on my favoite model 3 were starting to "bend".

    Finally I decided to try to bend one back to where it was originally and it broke ! So I emailed Kahler USA for information on how to install the "string hooks", as I could see that I was going to need at least 3 and some expert help in disassembly etc......Or I thought that this just might be the time to buy one of those new hybrids that I fell in love with at the last NAMM show.

    Finally I spoke to a rep at Kahler who informed me that my strings were too heavy for the 2500 and that I would continually bend and break the string hooks with those guages of stings.....When I asked about the hybrid, I was informed that these guages were also "....way to heavy for the new hybrid"....And that I would have problems with them as well....(apparently 11's are "pushing" the hybrid and they prefer that you use 10's...I thought that rock & roll could also be played on heavier gauges too !).

    What the kahler rep recommend was a 2710 or Kahler Killer, which he told me was discontinued but they (Kahler)still had around 30 new ones left i stock! He told me that the Kahler Killer 2710 would stand up to the string guages that I was using and that it would be a perfect substitute for the 2500...... and I could buy one from them for $250.00 - OUCH! Broken hearted that the new hybrid that I fell in love with at NAMM would not be a good choice, I agreed to buy one.

    I have since put it in and love it. It weighs about a pound and adds a little different feel to the guitar....but it "rocks" and stays in tune no matter what I do. I then noticed that my string hooks on my model 2 were starting to do the same thing, and I barely play it.....so I looked on ebay and bought two more for a fraction of the price.

    I love the Kahler Killer, but I am still a little disapointed that the new Kahler hybrids can not handle "real strings" and just little "slinky rubber bands".


    I had previously replaced one of those bridge pickup/tremolos found on Charvel model 3A's (on my model 3A) with a knock off floyd and still use the 12 - 56's. It keeps the guitar is perfect tune, but it changed the "feel" of the guitar a bit and the tone as well (which I am not happy with), but it holds up with the heavier string guages !

    Does anyone who presently has a new Kahler Hybrid use heavier strings than 11's? Does anyone use 12's or better?
    How do they stand up to the heavier guages?
    I would like to get some feedback, as I still would love to have one of those hybrids !
    sca

  • #2
    If I'm not mistaken, the Hybrid is a cam/flat-mount design. 2500 Traditional and Killer are fulcrum designs, a la Floyd Rose, Fender, etc. These are not comparable models, unless you are planning major surgery. If you have Models 2 or 3 from '86, you have the Traditional, or 2510, trem. The Killer would be a replacement for those. If you have Models 4, 5 or 6 from '86, then you could use the Hybrid as a replacement. But you couldn't use the Killer on a 4, 5 or 7 from '86, unless you are prepared to do major work on the guitar. Likewise, you couldn't put a Hybrid on a Model 2 or 3 from '86 without sugery.
    Chief Guitar Geek at George's Music Center
    www.georgesmusiccenter.com/theguitarstash
    [email protected]

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    • #3
      I understand about the "surgery", and I was prepared to do major surgery so I could have the hybrids, but the surgery was not the issue....the issue was my string guages. I have three extra Killers for replacement of my other 2500's...and I love them to death....But....?

      But I am interested to see if anyone who uses the the Kahler Hybrids with string guages heavier than 11's?

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      • #4
        I don't have experience with Kahler cam trems and 11's, (I have Kahlers but use 9s) but I do know that Kahler has two spring options, a regular tension:
        http://www.kahlerparts.com/Part_Pages/8412.htm
        and a heavy tension:
        http://www.kahlerparts.com/Part_Pages/8413.htm

        Also, in the very center of the cam is a hole with a allen head screw in it. This acts upon the spring linkage. Kahler calls it "spring tension adjustment":
        http://www.kahlerusa.com/pictures/FAB%20Web%20Page.jpg
        They say in this link "spring tension adjustment for any gauge strings in any tuning".

        On page 2 here:
        http://www.kahlerparts.com/Zips/2200...d%20Setups.pdf
        they say to turn clockwise for heavier strings.

        So I would say if you got the heavy tension springs and cranked that screw clockwise, the 11's should work for you.

        You could call Kahler and ask them....760-643-0000 or email them [email protected]
        http://www.kahlerusa.com/home.html

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        • #5
          I don't have much to add other than the Kahler Killer is a killer trem. I have one in my Aria and it works great. I love the feel, and it's locking but you don't have to cut off the ball ends of the strings.

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          • #6
            The Hybrid is actually the Made in China version that they use on the imports, so they're not really built as well as the USA Kahlers. (Like most stuff made in China! )

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Subvamp View Post
              The Hybrid is actually the Made in China version that they use on the imports, so they're not really built as well as the USA Kahlers. (Like most stuff made in China! )
              Ahem, have you actually tried one? Just about everything these days in made in China...gosh darn. Seriously, the Hybrids still have to pass Kahler Q/A before they use them and several people have them on the Moser forum and have zero issues with 'em. I've also seen posts by guys using 13s (yes 13s) on these trems. The worst part was using the stock Kahler string lock.
              The only solution to GAS is DEATH...

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              • #8
                Wow, thanks for the feed back, but I guess I was not clear....I was told by the tech at Kahler that (because I insist on heavier guaged strings) he did not recommend me using any string guage over 11 on the new line of tremolos (both US made and Hybrid models) and did not recommend that I purchase them for use in my guitars !

                Don't get me wrong....I tried the new Kahler out at the last namm show and was totally sold...But I don't want to buy a $300.+ part for my guitar when it is not going to work for me and my heavy guage strings.


                The Tech at Kahler told me......"no guages over 11" that I would have problems with the units if I used heavier guaged strings" ! ! ! ! !


                Sooooo, my question to the board is .....Who on the board is presently using the new Kahler Cam unit?

                Are they working well for you?

                And How heavy a guage of string are you using?

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                • #9
                  Unfortunately you're not going to get much Kahler love here. Everyone hates them or is gay for Floyds. You might want to try the Moser forum though, Neal has always been a fan of Kahlers and most of his guitars feature them. Lots of people using 'em there.
                  The only solution to GAS is DEATH...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sanctuary View Post
                    Ahem, have you actually tried one? :
                    Yes, I have. In fact, I sometimes use Kahlers on the guitars I build for customers, and when I asked my Kahler rep about the Hybrids, he said "The Hybrids are only for imports and lower-end guitars. Use the USA Kahlers on your custom builds, because they're a much better product than the China-made Hybrids".
                    So, there ya go.

                    But I agree that Kaherls are discriminated against quite a bit, for no good reason. They're more adjustable, easier to use and take a lot less mass out of a guitar than a Floyd. But sometimes a Floyd is needed I guess.

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                    • #11
                      Hybrids are USA-made, X-trems are the OEM import models, assumig this page is correct:
                      http://www.kahlerparts.com/Other_Pages/Faq.htm
                      Chief Guitar Geek at George's Music Center
                      www.georgesmusiccenter.com/theguitarstash
                      [email protected]

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                      • #12
                        I will check out the "moser" forum, but I find it funny that there are not a lot of "kahler fans" on this site. I have Floyds, Kahlers and wilkinson trems on my guitars....having the same on every guitar is boring!

                        And I agree with DonP, I was skeptical of not having the "roller" in the bridge and though that I would break a lot of strings...but the Kahler Killer is a "killer" trem.

                        Still, I ask the question, does anyone out there use any of the new Kahler cam trems with string gauges heavier than 11's ?

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                        • #13
                          There are plenty of Kahler fans on this site. But there are a lot of detractors too! But no, I don't use them with heavy guages.

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                          • #14
                            Pics of both of the trems would be good.
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                            • #15
                              O.k...got confused: The X-trems are the 100% import models, the Hybrids are China-made parts assembled in CA.

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