Floyds VS. Kahlers

[LEOKV2]

Hi

I've never played with a Kahler, though I'm very familiar with the Original Floyd Rose (my KV-2 has one).

I was wondering what were the main "feel" differences (I know one is routed to the back and the other is top mounted).

Also, any benefits in the Kahler as far as string changing/tuning goes?

Finally, which is better, easier to mantain, lasts longer, works better, etc?

Oh and I play the divebombs, squeals, etc etc, pretty much all the time. I heard or read that the Kahler wasn't very good at that (compared to the Floyd), but hey, Jeff Hanemann has one! I mean, that guy diveboms and squeals all day long with that thing in Slayer when he's not drinking or doing 'caine.... or both!

[El_Kabong]

Prepare for the possiblility of many 'Kahlers suck responses'. Floyds feel more traditional, Kahlers feel more fluid.

Kahlers are far easier to intonate and to change strings with. With Floyds, you run the risk of cracking the bridge locks without a lot of experience.

Kahlers need to be cleaned and oiled about once a year or so depending on use. Floyd stud mounts can wear out wise heavy abuse.

Personally, I prefer a Kahler. But 90% of this board prefer a Floyd.

Kahlers suck tone if not set up properly. An OFR will not.

[Bengal65]

Here's one of those Kahler's suck posts. The concept and design was and still is a good one. The feel is smooth more like a traditional trem and like mentioned the adjustablility is nice. IMHO they will not stay in tune without using a Floyd nut. I started using a Kahler in 1984 and I still don't like them.

[straycat]

The after the nut Kahler lock works fine.I have never had big stability problems with a Kahler.Just a different animal than an OFR.

[jonasaberg]

I

I've been wondering the exact same thing. I've been thinking about getting a guitar with a Floyd, either an old Charvel or Kramer. Saw a guitar with a Kahler the other day and started wondering what the difference is, if any.

From what I've read, OFR is the best alternative.

[LEOKV2]

How come Hanemman (and I think Kerry King) too use Kahlers and they do most of the guitar work on their band destroying those things?

[lerxstcat]

Hi

I've never played with a Kahler, though I'm very familiar with the Original Floyd Rose (my KV-2 has one).

I was wondering what were the main "feel" differences (I know one is routed to the back and the other is top mounted).

Also, any benefits in the Kahler as far as string changing/tuning goes?

Finally, which is better, easier to mantain, lasts longer, works better, etc?

Oh and I play the divebombs, squeals, etc etc, pretty much all the time. I heard or read that the Kahler wasn't very good at that (compared to the Floyd), but hey, Jeff Hanemann has one! I mean, that guy diveboms and squeals all day long with that thing in Slayer when he's not drinking or doing 'caine.... or both!

The Kahler is an easier action, but you can get heavier springs and a heavier bar to make it feel more like a Floyd.

The higher strings won't drop in picth as much as a Floyd, but I find you can still do most of the Floyd tricks. It won't do the "warble" like Vai does when he hits the bar though.

It's much more adjustable for intonation and with proper maintenance wiull last indefinitely. clean and oil the moving parts every 3 months according to the manual.

You can do unison bends without the "straight" not going way out of tune. There is a very slight pitch change but it can just be the detuned note, where a Floyd will just detune to shit. If a string breaks it will also not go out of tune, you can finish up the song.

The weak points of a Kahler are that it only locks at one end, and that because of the design of the locking clamp you won't see when the frame starts getting grooved. That's when they start going out of tune and most people don't think to take off the clamp to check it. They just say "Ahh.. Kahlers suck. You don't decide your car sucks when it needs new brakes.

[tanpsi]

I only tried a kahler for a bit in a music store, it seemed like there was less pitch change per movement of the bar, and kind of a slower or damped reaction, in feel it reminded me of my jazzmaster trem, of course the kahler will stay in tune better than the jazzmaster disaster!

[hippietim]

The higher strings won't drop in picth as much as a Floyd, but I find you can still do most of the Floyd tricks. It won't do the "warble" like Vai does when he hits the bar though.

With heavy springs you actually can do that trick - it just isn't as pronounced - more of subtle flutter.

It's much more adjustable for intonation and with proper maintenance wiull last indefinitely. clean and oil the moving parts every 3 months according to the manual.

Heh, I went for years without maintaining my Kahler's and never had problems.

You can do unison bends without the "straight" not going way out of tune. There is a very slight pitch change but it can just be the detuned note, where a Floyd will just detune to shit. If a string breaks it will also not go out of tune, you can finish up the song.

Not quite. You are still going to go slightly flat with a Kahler on bends unless you have heavy springs and heavy strings. A Kahler bridge is still a floating bridge so if you break a string you are going out of tune. There is no way you are finishing a song in tune.

[lerxstcat]

With heavy springs you actually can do that trick - it just isn't as pronounced - more of subtle flutter.

Heh, I went for years without maintaining my Kahler's and never had problems.

Not quite. You are still going to go slightly flat with a Kahler on bends unless you have heavy springs and heavy strings. A Kahler bridge is still a floating bridge so if you break a string you are going out of tune. There is no way you are finishing a song in tune.

It's still much less so than with a Floyd, and yes, you can ignore the recommended maintenance but that doesn't mean doing the maintenance isn't even better. I'll have to try the flutter on my Ultra V, it has the heavy bar and may have heavy springs, the trem action is a bit stiffer on that one.

I have found that a string break doesn't affect the other strings beyond the ability of the fine tuners to compensate, or for you to use root-fifth diads to finish up. You're not doing that with a Floyd unless it's blocked. Maybe you should have oiled your Kahlers after all!

[Racerx2k]

The after the nut Kahler lock works fine.I have never had big stability problems with a Kahler.Just a different animal than an OFR.

Exactly, Stray. I've owned 3 Kahler guitars, 2 of them Charvels, and NEVER had tuning stability issues with them, behind-the-nut locks and all.

[SeventhSon]

I always wondered why people point to the kahler nut/tuning stability issue as why they don't like kahlers because it's pretty easy to put a floyd nut on there if that's your gripe.

[Bert]

Personal preference really. Kahlers work well for me. I only like Floyd's if they are blocked.

[LEOKV2]

Can you go as low (or as high) in a Kahler like you would on a Floyd ?

[Twisteramps]

The weak points of a Kahler are that it only locks at one end, and that because of the design of the locking clamp you won't see when the frame starts getting grooved. That's when they start going out of tune and most people don't think to take off the clamp to check it. They just say "Ahh.. Kahlers suck. You don't decide your car sucks when it needs new brakes.

That would be an apt analogy if you had a car with only one set of brakes. Kahlers go out of tune because the ball end isn't locked into the bridge, end of story. The fact that they put the locks behind the nut so the strings can get hung up there too is just icing on the out of tune cake.

BTW, from what I've heard of Slayer's solos, who could tell if one of those turkey-call cacaphony lead breaks was out of tune anyways?

Pete