Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a MESS

[Number Of The Priest]

I want to swap my pickups. Actually, I almost don't want to do it any more. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Read why in the following paragraphs.

The control cavity in my Shannon Soloist looks like a tangled mess. It was like this when I bought it. I can't figure out which wire leads where. Here's some background information. The guitar does not have its stock pickups and currently has Duncan Hot Rails neck, Duncan Hot Rails middle, and DiMarzio Super 3 bridge pickups. The 5-way blade switch in positions 2 and 4 split the neck and bridge pickups and give a convincing single coil tone. So I believe the neck and bridge pickups are four-conductor (whatever the hell that means).

Here are the photos of the cavity (click for extremely high resolution high quality photos so you can see it in detail):




My pickups are APC 200 normal-wound single coil for neck, APC 200 reverse-wound single coil for middle, and APC Persuader humbucker for bridge. What I do not know is whether they are four-conductor or not, although I did request it when I ordered them in the big JCF group order last year. Can you tell if they're four-conductor by looking at the pickups themselves? Click for a larger version.


The wiring instructions that came with the APC pickups are as follows:

Wiring instructions for APC pickups

All standard APC pickups have this arrangement --- BLACK = GROUND, WHITE = HOT

All reverse wound APC pickups have this arrangement --- GREEN = GROUND, RED = HOT

To connect a humbucker in series, solder green to white. BLACK = GROUND, RED = HOT

When a bare wire is included, or black or white wire on metal covered pickups, this is a ground shield, and it should be connected to a common ground point such as the back of the controls or to the ground of the output jack. Make sure that this ground wire does not touch any other terminals or connection points.

Recommended pot resistance is 0.5meg (500K).

Any questions? Call APC and they will advise. 1-847-759-8200

I don't even know where to begin. I didn't think electronics were so difficult.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

It would be AWESOME and very helpful if someone inserted text labels into my photos to identify all the wires to me. I'd be very grateful. Thank you!!! [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[nonamemx]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

The Seymour Duncan Hotrails are 4 conductors, so essentially you have a HHH setup in there right now, like this:

[Sunbane]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

It's virtually impossible to tell from the pictures how your guitar is currently wired - especially with all that heat-shrink tubing they've put all over the place. I would suggest that you disconnect one pickup at a time, carefully taking note where its wires go, and drawing them on a schematic as you go along.

The most critical thing is understanding how the switch works. I'm not familiar with the switch type in your guitar, so I'm afraid I can't help you there.

Now, to the issue of conductors:
In this case, "conductor" = "lead" (as in "wire"). A two conductor pickup has two wires coming out of it, while a four conductor pickup has four wires coming out of it.

The APC singlecoil pickups are apparently NOT four-conductor pickups, and this is probably because they are TRUE singlecoil pickups, and thus only have one coil (with one conductor in each end). The APC humbucker has at least four conductors though, which means you can coil-split it. It may even have five (a lot of pickups have an additional ground/shield braid), but it's hard to tell from the picture.

Now, the Hot Rails in your guitar are splittable humbuckers, so they have four conductors. The APC wiring would become simpler, since each singlecoil only has one ground lead and one hot lead. The humbucker would have to be wired similarly to the DiMarzio pickup there though.

Best of luck!

[nonamemx]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

Its not impossible, I pretty much got it all deciphered. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] It took a long time, but it makes sense if you study it.

Im working on a NEW diagram for you, using the wonders of microsoft paint, its what you need to follow to wire up your APC's.

[nonamemx]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a



Follow that for your new pickups, and make sure you ground your bridge ground wires on the back of the volume pot.

The <font color="blue">BLUE</font> wires that you see aren't blue for any reason other than to distinguish themselves from the other wires. You have a main wire with 2 smaller wires inside of it that go to the input jack, I belive the ground wire on that is black and the hot is red, but I couldnt really see that well from the picture.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

Nonamemx, that's a great diagram!!! [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img] I'm wondering how come there's no #8 in your diagram. Is there no ground for the neck pickup for the split coil sound? I'm a noob. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] But the diagram is indeed awesome and I look forward to the next one you're preparing. [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img] Thank you!!! [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

Sunbane, excellent explanation of 2/4-conductor. Pity about the APC singles being only two-conductor. I guess I'll keep the Hot Rail pickup in the neck position. It's gonna look funny, but I need the versatility of having the thick humbucking sound of the Hot Rails as well as being able to split it. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] And the APC Persuader humbucker has four wires, just to answer your question about whether it has four or five. [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

I'll definitely split the APC bridge humbucker though! [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

WOW!! That was quick. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Thanks again nonamemx. [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

So I have to ground every single pickup to the back of a pot? Does it matter which one, or does it have to be both? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] What about the ground wire that is soldered to the back of the trem claw? How does that come into play? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

And does this second diagram already take into consideration that I want to be able to split the bridge humbucker? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[nonamemx]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

[ QUOTE ]
wondering how come there's no #8 in your diagram.

[/ QUOTE ]
You only use 7 tabs of the 8 on your switch. You can see there that the "Would be" tab #8 on your switch isnt hooked up to anything.

[ QUOTE ]
Is there no ground for the neck pickup for the split coil sound?

[/ QUOTE ]

The Neck SD DOES have a coil split ground.

But they're isnt one for the middle single coil. Thats one of the things that was really puzzling me, is that the middle humbucker seems to be hard-wired in humbucker mode.

The middle Seymour D's Red and White wires ARE soldered togeather and taped off, arent they? That would mean that the middle pickup is in humbucker mode all the time, which should be screwing up the whole position 2 and 4 thing.

Its definately confusing. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

If you want to use the SD Neck Hotrails in the neck, and then the APC for middle and bridge, I'll have to re-do that second diagram, I designed that for the standard HSS wiring.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

Excellent! [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

So what would the #8 tab theoretically do? Or is it kind of useless like a third nipple? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Yes, the middle Hot Rail seems to be permanently stuck on full humbucking. My five switch positions are: Full bridge Super 3, split bridge Super 3, full middle Hot Rails, split neck Hot Rails, and full neck Hot Rails. The typical "Strat positions 2 and 4" noise-cancelling modes are gone. And yes, the middle Hot Rail's red and white wires are taped off, right behind where it says "Input Jack?" on your first labelling diagram. I was wondering why they were taped off like that... good catch on that!! [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

Yes, my ideal pickup selection at this point would be bridge APC Persuader, middle APC 200 reverse-wound, and Duncan Hot Rail neck. I would ideally like to keep all five switch positions exactly the same so that I can split the bridge APC Persuader and split the neck Duncan Hot Rail.

Eventually, APC will be releasing the Persuader SC (single-coil), which would be the Persuader in a single coil housing. Let's hope they make it in four-conductor because I'd want to put that in the neck. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[nonamemx]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

Ok.

Tell me, in positions 2 and 4, the MIDDLE SD is active right? it SHOULD be active on positions 2,3, and 4. (although, full humbucking)

To tell easier which poles are active, plug the guitar in, flip the 5-way to the position you want to test, (dont turn the extremely loud because your going to make some obnoxiously ugly sounds) turn up the guitar's volume pot, and get a screwdriver and lightly "scrape" the pole piece. You should hear a loud grating sound if that coil is currently active in that position. (sometimes you will hear a faint grating sound, which is usually because the vibrations are traveling though the pickup into the other pole piece, (which will probably be active).

[nonamemx]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a



There's the modified schematic.



Oh, and to answer your question, the theoretical tab #8 is the output for that side of the switch (that pole), and is similar to the #1 tab on the other side (other pole). You see, your switch is dual pole, which means that all the tabs on one side of the switch are electronically seperate from the other side (referred to as the other pole)

Its essentially like having 2 switches in one. Its handy, because you can control 2 seperate functions using the same switch. It just so happens that the function we are using for that side of the pole doesnt require a total output.

The other side uses tab #1, because tabs 2,3, and 4 control the outputs from the three pickups, and the finished signal leaves the switch though the output, the #1 tab, and from there the signal splits and is divided between the volume pot (where it eventually makes its way to the input jack and into your amplifier)

The other signal travels down to the tone pot. The magic of a tone knob is a capacitor (green bubble thing on the tone knob). Capacitors BLOCK lower frequencies, so the treble ONLY passes though. . .and gets grounded by the tone pot, therefore "eliminated" from your signal, leaving only the bassy low frequencies. Its just a matter of how many get rolled off, for the pot is a resistor that slowly tapers the amount of high end that gets grounded.

Its a bit complicated. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

In positions 2 and 4, the middle Hot Rail is NOT active. Positions 2 and 4 split the neck and bridge humbuckers. The middle Hot Rail is ONLY active on position 3.

The 5-way switch MIGHT be a Superswitch or Megaswitch or whatever they're called. I've always had a hunch about this, because I was told many years ago that a conventional Strat-styled 5-way switch doesn't allow the possibilities that I currently have on this modified Shannon Soloist. The stock Shannon Soloist is the traditional HSS configuration with a regular 5-way blade switch.

I believe the 500K pots and the output jack are stock, though. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

Thanks VERY much for all the great explanations. [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img] I have now saved all three of your diagrams and I'll try to tackle the soldering on Thursday. [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[nonamemx]

Re: Wussy cry for help. Soloist electronics are a

[ QUOTE ]
In positions 2 and 4, the middle Hot Rail is NOT active. Positions 2 and 4 split the neck and bridge humbuckers. The middle Hot Rail is ONLY active on position 3.

The 5-way switch MIGHT be a Superswitch or Megaswitch or whatever they're called. I've always had a hunch about this, because I was told many years ago that a conventional Strat-styled 5-way switch doesn't allow the possibilities that I currently have on this modified Shannon Soloist. The stock Shannon Soloist is the traditional HSS configuration with a regular 5-way blade switch.

I believe the 500K pots and the output jack are stock, though. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe you may be right about that switch, Its not acting like a conventional 5-way switch.

It'll do what you want it to do for your purposes, which is a plus [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Best of Luck [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]