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View Full Version : Regular spaced pick-up in Floyded guitar.



Razor
11-10-2005, 07:01 PM
Noob question I know, but I recall reading somewhere where some people don't use trembuckers in their Floyded guitars. Is there any truth to this? If so, how many of you install and use regular spaced humbuckers in guitars with Floyds/Kahlers versus using trembuckers? If you do, please tell me the advantages and disadvantages of doing it.

Thanks

~K~
11-10-2005, 07:20 PM
It's more of a cosmetic issue than anything ..

RobRR
11-10-2005, 07:53 PM
Itll sound fine... I had a regular spaced JB in my Floyd and it was just fine. Problem is Im very anal when it comes to that, so I got the correct trem spaced one for it.

Bengal65
11-10-2005, 11:31 PM
In the early days EVH and others used standard pickups with the Floyd (since Floyd spacing on pickups was non-existant). Your outside poles E and E will have the string just to the outside of the screw head. No worries though, your sound will be just fine. And like Kevin mentioned, it's "more of a cosmetic issue than anything".

Model1VH2
11-11-2005, 09:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It's more of a cosmetic issue than anything ..

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but I disagree.
A "normal" spaced humbucker in a guitar with a Floyd will in fact work, but an F-spaced humbucker will work better.
And yes, EVH did in fact use a "normal" spaced PAF in his guitar, but he also mounted it in the tilted position so the pole pieces would match up.

DonP
11-11-2005, 03:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's more of a cosmetic issue than anything ..

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but I disagree.
A "normal" spaced humbucker in a guitar with a Floyd will in fact work, but an F-spaced humbucker will work better.
And yes, EVH did in fact use a "normal" spaced PAF in his guitar, but he also mounted it in the tilted position so the pole pieces would match up.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I disagree as well. It is just a cosmetic thing, and a way to sell RobRR and I more pickups because we are anal about looks.

I will say this - because of the physically different shape of the bobbins, the fact that the magnet might be longer, more turns of wire might be one - an SH4 won't ever sound exactly like a TB4. Because of the trem spacing, they are two different sounding pickups which manufacturer's try to get close to sounding the same as they possibly can.

jgcable
11-11-2005, 03:35 PM
It doesn't matter. If it did, everybody would be using X2N's, blades, rails and Carvin pickups. Its cosmetic.

Zerberus
11-11-2005, 03:39 PM
Iīll see if I can find the soundclips I cut a few years back and weīll see how many still say it doesnīt matter.... direct A/B test with identical settings incl. pickup height /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Model1VH2
11-11-2005, 03:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's more of a cosmetic issue than anything ..

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, but I disagree.
A "normal" spaced humbucker in a guitar with a Floyd will in fact work, but an F-spaced humbucker will work better.
And yes, EVH did in fact use a "normal" spaced PAF in his guitar, but he also mounted it in the tilted position so the pole pieces would match up.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I disagree as well. It is just a cosmetic thing, and a way to sell RobRR and I more pickups because we are anal about looks.

I will say this - because of the physically different shape of the bobbins, the fact that the magnet might be longer, more turns of wire might be one - an SH4 won't ever sound exactly like a TB4. Because of the trem spacing, they are two different sounding pickups which manufacturer's try to get close to sounding the same as they possibly can.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry ... but I still disagree. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
And I doubt soundclips will prove anything either.
Anything lacking in a normal spaced pickup mounted in a Floyd guitar can easily be compensated via EQ, etc ...
As I stated before, it WILL work, but it won't be as responsive in areas that are not picked up by the pole pieces. What doesn't make sense about this?

If it's merely for "cosmetic" purposes, why would major manufactures like Dimarzio (F-spaced) and Seymour Duncan (Trembucker) explain it otherwise? ESPECIALLY Dimarzio who cators more towards "cosmetics" with their pink, green, red, purple, yellow, blue, etc ... colored pickups?

MountainDog
11-11-2005, 06:05 PM
I have found the trem spaced pickups sound better, with more consistent string output across the pickup, but it can also be related to body wood/neck wood. I have a few guitars that came with regular spacing and they sound OK, and I've left them alone.

However, I had one recent example where there was a huge difference between reg/trem spaced. A friend got an Ash strat-body Robin, complained it didn't have bass. I figured it was his set-up and bought the guitar from him. In my rig, it was also lacking bottom. I then noticed it was a reg spaced Duncan JB SH-4. I swapped in a trem spaced JB TB-4 and with the new pickup spaced exactly the same distance from the strings as the old, it sounded like a completely different guitar, nice bottom, nice even string power across each string.

My friend ended up getting a Robin Tele-body guitar with the money I gave him, and was very happy with the bottom end of that guitar. I peeked at it, and yep, has a trem spaced duncan! He still thinks it's the strat body vs. tele body, causing the sound difference, not the pickups.

mogar
11-11-2005, 06:44 PM
They sound fine to me. When I bought my Full-Shred, I didn't read the box. But I noticed no drop in response over the strings. And if your a stickler about it, ADJUST THE POLE PIECES YOU LAZY BASTAGE!

Just foolin' ya. Anyway, if it bothers you or if you think it matters, get a trem spaced one. It's not like they cost more.

Chuckracer
11-12-2005, 08:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, if it bothers you or if you think it matters, get a trem spaced one. It's not like they cost more.

[/ QUOTE ]

There It is. Truth.

I think it matters, personally.

Zerberus
11-12-2005, 08:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
.....
Sorry ... but I still disagree. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
And I doubt soundclips will prove anything either.
Anything lacking in a normal spaced pickup mounted in a Floyd guitar can easily be compensated via EQ, etc .......

[/ QUOTE ]

The whole purposse of making soundclips for comparison os NOT using EQ and such to accentuate or mask the differences, otherwise itīs a useless BS experiment /images/graemlins/wink.gif

The difference is audible on chords that use one or both e-strings, clean or under gain....the entire tonality of both clips is nearly identical as well as the licks, but you can hear the e-strings notably better on the TB, especially in clean sections...

Admittedly, for mostly single note picking or power chords the difference isnīt as obvious, on the inside 4 strings itīs essentially not there....

my $0.02... again, Iīll try to dig them out if I still have them...

[ QUOTE ]
.....Anyway, if it bothers you or if you think it matters, get a trem spaced one. It's not like they cost more.

[/ QUOTE ]
THIS I think we can all agree on /images/graemlins/toast.gif

eddie_van_earache
11-12-2005, 09:05 AM
means nothing

83SanDimas
11-12-2005, 09:35 AM
ahh a screw counter convention

Why it means nothing. Thinking that the poles need to be directly under the guitar is 2 dimensional thinking. Their is always a straight line from pole to string and the distance varies based on preference. You should never have your pup that close to the string that the distance matters. In essence you can achieve the same distance with either setup.

Anal, sure I agree with correct spaced for looks and well just because they go together. Bot not required.

The early x2ns were based on a study that guitars played through underdriven amps lost sustain when strings were bent. So many variables go into that formula. Bridge configuration and metal type. Body wood etc. It makes the most sense to "need" correct spacing when playing a clean undriven guitar. Once you saturate the signal it is really irrelevant.

Of course, if building a floyded guitar I would use an f spaced.

hippietim
11-12-2005, 09:44 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't matter. If it did, everybody would be using X2N's, blades, rails and Carvin pickups. Its cosmetic.

[/ QUOTE ]

John, nobody should use Carvin pickups /images/graemlins/poke.gif

DonP
11-14-2005, 08:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Why it means nothing. Thinking that the poles need to be directly under the guitar is 2 dimensional thinking. Their is always a straight line from pole to string and the distance varies based on preference. You should never have your pup that close to the string that the distance matters. In essence you can achieve the same distance with either setup.

[/ QUOTE ]

To elaborate on this, look at the guitar from the top down to see how far off the strings are from the center of the poles.

Then, look at the guitar from the side to see how far the strings are from the pole pieces.

Comparatively, the strings are miles further from the poles than they are "off center" because of not using F spaced trem pickups. If the magnetic field is at least as strong as the height of the pickup to the string, a little off center should not be that big a deal.

And for those who A/B test or say there is a tone difference, read my post again - an F spaced pickup is not the same pickup as the regular spaced. Compare Ohm readings, look at the bobbin shape, magnet length - these factors alone will change the tone of the pickup. F spaced pickups are not the same as the regular spaced pickups and should be treated as a entirely different pickup.

Model1VH2
11-14-2005, 10:57 AM
DonP, everyone's entitled to their opinion.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

For those who are now more confused than they were before reading this thread, I recommend contacting the manufacture of whatever pickup you are considering and get it right "from the horses mouth".

/images/graemlins/toast.gif

Ace
11-14-2005, 06:31 PM
DON'T DO IT!! IT WILL EXPLODE AND KILL YOU!! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

noodlesatf
11-14-2005, 07:33 PM
I don't think they sound the same at all. In general, I think the trem spaced versions sound way too bright. If you think that practically all of us are using high output pickups, the pole pieces lining up has nothing to do with the strength of the magnetic field that these pickups throw out.

I only have one trem spaced pickup, and it's on my Soloist. The JB was too muddy, the Distortion was too bright, but the trem-spaced JB was right in the middle where I needed it to be.

sambencuda
11-17-2005, 08:43 PM
Here's one for you, Why do SLATQH's (TOM) come stock with a trem spaced Custom 5? I installed a reg spaced Custom in one and it sounds/seems fine to me. Anyone know why they use trem spaced with a TOM?

sully
11-17-2005, 08:48 PM
man, i coulda sworn somewhere i recently read that there are some TOMS that are trem spaced. i puld be on crack, tho. probably so. at least gibson ones, hence the T in 498T or whatev....

toejam
11-17-2005, 09:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
at least gibson ones, hence the T in 498T or whatev....

[/ QUOTE ]
The T on Gibson pup models stands for treble. The R stands for rhythm.

sully
11-17-2005, 09:52 PM
toldja i was on crack!

toejam
11-17-2005, 10:23 PM
/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

DonP
11-18-2005, 09:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
man, i coulda sworn somewhere i recently read that there are some TOMS that are trem spaced.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you're not on crack.

Here is what I've heard they do at Gibson in order to set the strings on the bridge saddles. The worked lays the string on a flat saddle, adjusting it to something (not sure what they are looking for as far as spacing), and gives the string/saddle a whack with a hammer in order to dent the saddle for the string.

Maybe the worker lines up the strings under the poles of the pickup?

noodlesatf
11-18-2005, 01:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Maybe the worker lines up the strings under the poles of the pickup?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, all that shit is already predetermined. Everything on those guitars is CNC'ed, including the mounting holes for the bridge, whose placement determines the angle of the bridge. I could see the whack it with a hamer thing, but the strings will already be lined up over the pole pieces at this point, since there path down the neck is already determined by the placement of the nut and stop tail.

Model1VH2
11-21-2005, 10:04 AM
"Here is what I've heard they do at Gibson in order to set the strings on the bridge saddles. The worked lays the string on a flat saddle, adjusting it to something (not sure what they are looking for as far as spacing), and gives the string/saddle a whack with a hammer in order to dent the saddle for the string.

Maybe the worker lines up the strings under the poles of the pickup?"


That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
If in fact you did hear that, I would suggest NEVER repeating it again. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

DonP
11-21-2005, 11:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
"Here is what I've heard they do at Gibson in order to set the strings on the bridge saddles. The worked lays the string on a flat saddle, adjusting it to something (not sure what they are looking for as far as spacing), and gives the string/saddle a whack with a hammer in order to dent the saddle for the string.

Maybe the worker lines up the strings under the poles of the pickup?"


That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
If in fact you did hear that, I would suggest NEVER repeating it again. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's true, then it's true. Take a trip to the Gibson factory and find out for us.

It's pretty much taken as "fact" at the LesPaulForum.

Personally, I don't care. If it works, it works. I have two LP's from the factory - never had an issue with either. The LP I have that Dan Erlewine setup - now that's a bit nicer!