PDA

View Full Version : 12 string help



Shawn
10-23-2005, 02:19 AM
Hey guys..I have gotten big time into Rickenbackers lately, and really want to take the 12 string jump, but being a novice of 6 years, dont really understand the tuning.

How difficult is it to keep them and get them in tune?


Shawn

toejam
10-23-2005, 02:33 AM
I owned a Carvin DC120 for a few months... it was cool, but ultimately I realized it was really not for me. It didn't take all that long to get used to it, but it was something I wouldn't use all that much. The high E and B strings are doubled, the extra G, D, A and E strings are tuned an octave higher. I had no problem keeping it in tune either.

Number Of The Priest
10-23-2005, 12:07 PM
Toejam's right. Also, some people tune them ever so slightly out of tune with each other, that it creates a slightly chorused effect. Try it... you might like it. I personally didn't when I had my 12-string Takamine (which now belongs to Kennslp), but it's a subjective thing.

Budman68
10-23-2005, 12:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Toejam's right. Also, some people tune them ever so slightly out of tune with each other, that it creates a slightly chorused effect. Try it... you might like it. I personally didn't when I had my 12-string Takamine (which now belongs to Kennslp), but it's a subjective thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="aqua">That is absolutely correct and I do that but you really have to have a decent 12 string that will stay in tune and that can be intonated properly (which I don't /images/graemlins/laugh.gif). It really enhances the sound though so it's worth tinkering with, in my opinion. </font>

hippietim
10-23-2005, 12:41 PM
Shawn - the trick with Rick's is they tend to be strung backwards from other 12's. Most 12 strings you see in stores are strung with the high strings before the low strings - IOW, your 12th string will be an octave higher E than your 11th string which is your traditional low E. All the Rick 12's I've seen have been flipped - I never cared for that. Go to GC or someplace and fool with some 12-strings so you can feel the difference. To reverse the order on a Rick you'd need to get a new nut cut - I'm not sure how adaptable the various rick bridges are but I suspect it will be fine.

Newc
10-24-2005, 05:13 PM
I've got a Dano DC-12 and it stays in tune just fine as long as I don't do blues solos on it.

Soon as Floyd Rose does a 12-string locking trem, I'm sooooo on it /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

screamindv
10-24-2005, 10:15 PM
I have an Epiphone double neck 1275. I slightly detune the E and B strings to make a bigger sound.
Screamin'

toejam
10-24-2005, 10:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Soon as Floyd Rose does a 12-string locking trem, I'm sooooo on it /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif Ibanez did a 14-stringer for the guys in Korn a couple years back... it was a hardtail bridge, though. Could you imagine a Floyd on that sucker?!? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Number Of The Priest
10-24-2005, 11:45 PM
Tekky and I once talked about me inventing and patenting a truly workable 12-string double-locking trem. He seriously wished me good luck with it... I think I'll need it! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The real engineer's feat question is whether to make individual saddles for each of the 12-strings, with the disadvantage of having 12 extremely narrow (but individually-adjustable) saddles to maintain the same string spacing, or to cram pairs of strings into six modified standard-spaced saddles and risk tuning/intonation-related problems. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The next quantum leap would be a D-Tuna for this 12-string Floyd monstrosity. Would you have one D-Tuna to downtune the two low E strings, or would you have two mini D-Tunas to do it? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Of course, Hipshot Tremsetter and the Tremol-No may have to develop slightly modified products to retrofit into these new beasts... /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

And then Floyd Rose comes out with the 12-string double-locking Floyd Rose Speedloader! No need for that enormously large headstock to accommodate 12 tuners any more. Works just like the regular Speedloader, but designed for 12 strings! When does the insanity ever end? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Of course, there would be the low-profile versions of these OFRs... and would be licenced to Ibanez to make their 12-string Edge trems, Schaller, Takeuchi, etc... maybe the technology would extend as far as non-locking bridges like Wilkinson, Fender, and others! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Derangedly yours,
Number Of The Productive /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

toejam
10-24-2005, 11:47 PM
Definitely deranged!! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

hippietim
10-25-2005, 07:47 AM
The other thing you really need with a 12-string is a compressor. All of those classic Byrds and Beattles tunes were comrpressed like crazy. Or you could go the Jimmy Page route and turn your Marshall all the way up to avoid the extra pedal /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

hippietim
10-25-2005, 08:03 AM
Oh, and you MUST learn at least three of the following: The Song Remains The Same, Thank You, Mr. Tambourine Man, So You Want To Be A Rock 'N' Roll Star, You Can't Do That, Any Time At All, Hard Days Night.

jgcable
10-25-2005, 09:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Shawn - the trick with Rick's is they tend to be strung backwards from other 12's. Most 12 strings you see in stores are strung with the high strings before the low strings - IOW, your 12th string will be an octave higher E than your 11th string which is your traditional low E. All the Rick 12's I've seen have been flipped - I never cared for that. Go to GC or someplace and fool with some 12-strings so you can feel the difference. To reverse the order on a Rick you'd need to get a new nut cut - I'm not sure how adaptable the various rick bridges are but I suspect it will be fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

+1 regarding the above.
Most guitarists play 12 string guitars incorrectly. You really can't approach a 12 string like its a 6. Pick up some Roger McGuinn 12 string instructional video's. HE CAN PLAY A 12 STRING!! For instance.. Turn Turn Turn. Most people play it wrong. When you learn the tricks to playing a 12 string correctly (utilizing the doubled octave strings for melodies) you will be blown away. ROGER McGUINN!!!