Top Mount Kahler question??

[jgcable]

I have a 1986 Carvin V220 with an excellent condition top mount Kakler on it and a brass nut. The question I have is relatively simple. This guitar stays in tune beautifully but after almost every wank session I have to pull the bar up slightly or slap it around a little to return the guitar to perfect pitch. Is this normal for a top mount Kahler? It currently has 9-42 gauge on it. Would lighter or heavier gauge help out? Any suggestions? [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

[shreddermon]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

By "top mount" Kahler, do you mean their original design? i.e., Not one of their licensed Floyd knock-offs?

If so, sorry bro but those Kahlers just do not have quite the same level of rock-solid tuning stability as real Floyds. From what I've heard, one common issue is that the springs can go on those older Kahlers. Might want to try replacing them. ...I'm no Kahler expert, though.

Also, while that brass nut is probably good for sustain and tone, it probably ain't helping the tuning stability situation. You might be hanging up there. If you haven't already, try lubing your nut. (... [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )

[jgcable]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

Yea, its one of the original "good" Kahlers.

[~K~]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

I've never had a problem with tuning stability Pat ... John have you pulled it apart, cleaned and oiled it?

[jgcable]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

No I haven't taken it apart. It is in excellent condition though. I was going to change the strings tonight. I will take it apart and oil it up. It isn't in front of me right now but I believe it is a Kahler Pro. Its definately the high end good one that was out in 1986.

[~K~]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

http://www.jcfonline.com/ubbthreads/...;page=0#364933

[noodlesatf]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

I don't have any problems out of mine, either, but you do have to know how to dial them in. If you ever look at the bottom of one, the springs attatch to a brass block, which in turn attatches to the cam. Move the cam back and forth, and you'll notice the point where the springs pull off the top of the block. It feels like a little notch in the travel of the cam. If you set the bridge up with this notch at zero when the guitar is strung and tuned, you will have the same tuning stability as a Floyd.

No one ever told me this, I just learned it by messing around with the bridge. The great thing about Kahlers is you can adjust the spring tension from the top, making it easier to dial the bridge in than it sounds.

I'd be glad to write something more detalied up for posting as a sticky, if the admins feel it would be useful.

[LesPaulCustom]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

<font color="yellow">Most of my Strat's do have Kahler Pro's on them.....I have only one Floyded guitar to my name.

I have no problems or issues with the Kahler....and like someone said, you have to take the time to set them up correctly and maintain them.

I actually prefer the Kahler over the Floyd for tone (ducks for tomatoes [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]).

JG..probably just needs to be cleaned a bit....I don't think it's too serious.....minor maintenance. </font>

[jgcable]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

I'll take it apart tonight when I restring it. I'll post tonight for an update. Like I said, it's a minor issue. The one thing I do like alot regarding the Kahler is that fact that I can do double stop bends without the entire guitar detuning. I also notice on mine that I can drop D the E string and the other strings pretty much stay in tune.

[FusionFarmer]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

KahlerUSA has heavy gauge replacement springs, I put a set on about a year ago and really like the stability it added.

[shreddermon]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

Well, like I said, I'm no Kahler expert. But of the many Kahler guitars I've had the opportunity to play, not one could take significant trem use and consistently return to perfect pitch like a Floyd. None.

Don't get me wrong. They're nice trems. Just different. But, IMHO, from the perspective of "total use" tuning stability, they flat out don't stand up to a Floyd. Nothing does, quite frankly.

[noodlesatf]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

[ QUOTE ]
Don't get me wrong. They're nice trems. Just different. But, IMHO, from the perspective of "total use" tuning stability, they flat out don't stand up to a Floyd. Nothing does, quite frankly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Total matter of opinion. To me, tuning stability also includes bending, and you flat out can't do double stops cleanly on a Floyd. You can on a Kahler. It's all what you prefer, because I will admit that the Floyd is best if you want to do a lot of bar tricks.

[Cuthbert]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

[ QUOTE ]
Well, like I said, I'm no Kahler expert. But of the many Kahler guitars I've had the opportunity to play, not one could take significant trem use and consistently return to perfect pitch like a Floyd. None.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is possible that these tremolos weren't in a too good condition, usually Kahlers were quite popular in the early 80's, when Rose had an agreement with Kramer and therefore it was difficult to sell them besides this kind of guitar...

Apart that, there is the strange custom to use Kahlers without locking nut, this doesn't help their stability but besides that, a kahler 2300 or 2200 stays in tune (almost) like a FLoyd rose, in my experience...

[BLOOD SPLATTER]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question??

John make sure the rollers are rolling & the lock-nut is clamping the strings correctly!!Lock the nut & detune the b-string tuner,if it goes flat the clamp could be grooved & not locking the string,check 'em all!!
Also if the string takes a drastic angle to the tuner it may not be lining up with the clamp!!
Use some pencil lead in the nut slots too,always helps!!

Floyds will always be best for extreme whammy abuse,Kahlers are more subtle,pros & cons to each!!If I want to bury the bar it's a Floyd every time but in some situations I prefer a Kahler!!Different design,different applications!!One of the cool things about having several different guitars....variety!!

[jgcable]

Re: Top Mount Kahler question?? UPDATE!!

Well my good ole JCF helpful as all hell bro's.. I took the Kahler off and checked it all out. It is in extremely good condition.. almost mint EXCEPT FOR 2 THINGS!!
1. The low E roller was frozen. (how did I miss that??)
2. The guitar had 11-56 gauge strings on it and it certainly wasn't set up for that heavy of a gauge.

The low E roller and the roller assembly were both in excellent condition but it was frozen. I popped the roller pin out, shot it with a little sewing machine oil, cleaned the inside of the assembly and put it back together. It now rolls perfectly smooth. BTW... the pins only go in 1 way.
Next I lightly oiled all the moving parts.
I then installed 10-46 gauge, set up the Kahler for the new lighter gauge and tuned her up. After a few heavy whammy sessions I retuned and locked her down.
PERFECTO.... this sucker stays in tune perfectly. Absolutely as good as my Floyded guitars. I pulled up, I whammy'd down, I played to the entire VH1 album. When it was over... I was still in tune. Perfectly. I checked it with my Korg tuner... just about dead nuts in tune. My low E was off a "C" hair. Not even noticable to my old ears.
Thanks alot guys for the suggestions. I will be playing the Carvin V220 for my gig on Saturday. Many of the songs in the new band require alot of wanking. I am also going to bring my Carvin DC127 with the Floyd on it and my PRS CE24 but my feeling is that I will be playing the V220 all night. Thanks again!! [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]