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  • wierd intonation problem HELP!

    Sully? Ken? Dave(budman), Ace, Any tech/luthier?

    I need help with an intonation problem. I've been doing setups for years and I have never come across this one.

    I just got a 99 Custom Shop Arch Top Dinky. It's 24-3/4 scale. This guitar is perfect in every way, it plays great, great action, nice slinky feel due to the shorter scale, the typical Jackson. After it came (yesterday) I decided to throw a set of strings on, but not go full bore for a complete setup yet. It seemed fine in every way so why go nuts? I don't know what was on it, but I threw a set of D'Addario 10-46's on it. Every thing was cool until I went to adjust the fine tuners on the OFR so that they were around the middle of their travel. I noticed that the E,A and G string saddles would were bottoming out against the back of the baseplate. The reason? they were adjust all the way back to the 3rd screw hole. No big deal. It's probably just that the intonation needs to be set. So I plug into my old faithful Peterson Strobe tuner. According to the tuner (and I double checked it with my Yamaha and POD tuners) The saddle needed to go back even further. Wierd! It was back as far as it could go. I measured first from the nut to the center of the 12th fret. Perfect at 12-3/8". The I measure from the center of the 12th to the Floyd. 12-3/8" falls short of the saddles by quite a bit. I know it's not going to be dead on, but I've always experienced it falling within the general area. I checked the posts and figured that maybe it's pushing Towards the neck. I've seen this before, but they were dead straight up. Check out the pic belowof the scale length from the 12th to the Floyd.



    I can't believe that this guitar went through QC at Jackson like this. Besides, it doesn't make sense to me any way. Am I missing something?

    Am I crazy? If the string is to pitch and the 12th fret fretted is sharp, you move the saddle back until it's to pitch. If it's flat, you move the saddle up until it's to pitch. Correct?

    Other than this one thing, this guitar is perfect and drop dead gorgeous.

    [img]/images/graemlins/help.gif[/img]
    "My G-Major can blow me!" - Bill

  • #2
    Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

    Thats really weird.

    You've got your intonation directions correct, you not crazy (sharp=away from neck, flat = closer to neck)

    The only thing I can think of is maybe the neck isnt seated right in the neck pocket.

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    • #3
      Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

      Yeah, I don't get it. I thought about the neck pocket as well, but If it weren't seated right, I would think that it would place the nut further away from the bridge not too close like it is. I suppose they could have routed the Floyd rout too close to the neck pocket, but I can't see how this could have passed through Jackson QC and every owner before me?

      I suppose I could pull and plug the floyd inserts and redrill 1/4 further back, but then the Floyd wouldn't fit into the recess so that would have to be re-routed. I ain't doin that!

      Has anyone ever shimmed the front of a neck pocket? I could fill and re-drill the neck screws. I wonder if this is even going too far. There has to be a reason for this. Mind you, this is pre-Fender and I believe that contrary to popular belief, the last years before the Fender buy out had some pretty sloppy work.

      I just can't figure this one out.
      "My G-Major can blow me!" - Bill

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      • #4
        Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

        any chance that it's a parts guitar and has the wrong neck (mismatched scale) on it? just thinkin out loud...
        Sully Guitars - Built by Rock & Roll
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        • #5
          Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

          [ QUOTE ]
          any chance that it's a parts guitar and has the wrong neck (mismatched scale) on it? just thinkin out loud...

          [/ QUOTE ]

          I thought that too, but since he measured from the 12th fret and still ended uo short of the saddles, it's gotta be something else. Usually the saddle will actually sit anywhere from a 16th to 1/4 of an inch further away than the actual scale length, when the guitar is intonated properly. It certainly looks like your guitar should intonate. How is the nut height? Is all the hardware screwed down properly? nothing loose?
          Sleep!!, That's where I'm a viking!!

          http://www.myspace.com/grindhouseadtheband

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          • #6
            Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

            [ QUOTE ]
            any chance that it's a parts guitar and has the wrong neck (mismatched scale) on it? just thinkin out loud...

            [/ QUOTE ]

            Yeah, thats the first thing I checked. I'm fairly certain it's a complete guitar. It's an archtop Dinky and the headstock matches the body.

            [ QUOTE ]
            How is the nut height? Is all the hardware screwed down properly? nothing loose?

            [/ QUOTE ]

            Yup. everything else is where it's supposed to be and tight. THe guitar plays great. It's probably one of the best feeling Jacksons I have ever owned. I would say that if I could move that saddle back another 1/8" It would be intonated perfect. It's not even that it's out. I mean, Its is pretty close, but with the saddles backed up against the angle on the base plate, the fine tuners are usless.

            I'm considering making a fitted shim for the front of the neck pocket and redrilling the neck holes, but I want to make sure that there isn't something else I'm missing.

            Very strange.
            "My G-Major can blow me!" - Bill

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            • #7
              Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

              Jim, shouldn't you be pushing those saddles towards the neck? They look too far back and that would cause the fine tuners to miss. I would use one of your other Floyded guitars as a guide and set up the saddles the same way. Then try to intonate it. I am not sure if a 24.75 scale guitar has the Floyd saddles in a different position than a 25.5 scale but if that is the case I am sure eyou can find a reference pic of a 24.75 guitar with a Floyd on it and just copy it. Thats what I would do. I doubt you need to shim or drill. You are just overlooking something.

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              • #8
                Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

                Yeah Jim, before you go doing any radical alterations that involve drilling, I would start from scratch. Move all the saddles forward, to where they should be. It can't hurt.
                Sleep!!, That's where I'm a viking!!

                http://www.myspace.com/grindhouseadtheband

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                • #9
                  Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

                  I wouldn't mess with the neck pocket if possible. Is there enough room to relocate the bridge (dowel and re-drill the trem posts)? It would be less work and not as noticable.

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                  • #10
                    Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

                    Maybe, and this is just a thought, you could find a way to push the bridge back from where the knife edge meets the post. MAYBE you can find thicker posts?

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                    • #11
                      Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

                      is it all possible that this was a flawed guitar that had the bridge located incorrectly? to me, it would explain why someone sold you the guitar. not with malicious intent, mind you, but more of a "this thing never stays in tune" kind of way.

                      sully
                      Sully Guitars - Built by Rock & Roll
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                      • #12
                        Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

                        move the nut, not the brige [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
                        shawnlutz.com

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                        • #13
                          Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

                          Jim, who did you get this guitar from??

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                          • #14
                            Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

                            It's this guitar...



                            I traded to Jim for his LP Custom Showcase. Not a parts guitar as the headstock matches the body and says Custom Shop. Plus I have a copy of the original work order. Serial # matches + work order says "short scale".

                            Why did this go unnoticed by me? Because when I got it, it was perfect. Best fretwork, action, playability on any Jackson I've ever owned period, so I had no reason to get a pro set up. I had no reason to mess with the intonation cuz it sounded fine by ear and I don't have a strobe tuner. I never messed with the fine tuners cuz the strings were already stretched and tuned to standard. Jim only noticed this cuz he put new 10's on it to drop down to Eb.

                            It was also owned by parntz who went over the top in disclosing all the details of the guitar to me, and i didn't even get the guitar from him, and this intonation issue never came up so I assume that the guitar was a-ok out of the box for him too. I'm sure this issue will be as much a surprise for him as it is for me.

                            For the record, I have offered Jim a full refund, but he won't have any part of it because, frankly, the guitar fukking smokes.
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A

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                            • #15
                              Re: wierd intonation problem HELP!

                              This is a bit off topic, but I have to say it: WOW! [img]/images/graemlins/drool2.gif[/img]

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